23 December 2004, 23:25 | #1 |
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Kickstart ROM Question...
Was wondering if anybody could answer this question for me...
The distribution of the Kickstart images is illegal and people here are against requests for Kickstart images (just read another thread that's how I got the idea to post this question)...Was wondering why, since AFAIK neither new software nor hardware is being produced... Now of course it is illegal to copy those ROMs but it is also illegal to copy any other Amiga software regularly requested here unless the copyright holder permits distribution... Even if we assume that Cloanto or whoever uses the profits from the sales of ROM images to enhance future Amiga products (which are ?), they rely on WinUAE or other emulators...Do they support those projects financially from sales ? Is it ethical to sell a product (and expect somebody to pay for) that is mainly used to run illegal copies of software from other companies ? An interesting question I think, maybe somebody can help me understand.... |
24 December 2004, 00:51 | #2 |
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http://www.back2roots.org
http://www.caps-project.org http://www.whdload.de What a *Stupid Question*, someone close this thread! Last edited by alexh; 24 December 2004 at 09:00. |
24 December 2004, 01:11 | #3 | |
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24 December 2004, 01:39 | #4 | |
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24 December 2004, 09:20 | #5 | |||||
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Sorry about my SNAP reply, but you must have known the answer to most of your questions before posting...... didnt you?
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You KNOW why the owners to the rights of AmigaOS (Kickstart) wont release it. I dont understand why you started this thread? The only interesting bit was Quote:
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24 December 2004, 09:43 | #6 |
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AlexH, your reply was overly curt and unhelpful.
I think HCF's question was quite a valid one. You say hard work went into making the Kickstart..... I suppose hard work didn't go into making games that people on here regularly spread around for all to use? Seeing as HCF is a new user to this forum, I hardly think replies such as yours are particularly helpful. The guy asked a simple question, if you cannot be bothered to reply to a simple question without resorting to ridiculous replies, please don't bother! And your assertion that he knew the answers before he asked is also a bit ridiculous. Personally, whilst people are happy to copy games for others, all this clandestine rubbish about not spreading the Kickstart ROMS is just that.... rubbish! |
24 December 2004, 09:44 | #7 | |
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What a *boring/expected/heard a million times before reply* Somebody close this thread ! ZZzzzZZ |
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24 December 2004, 09:57 | #8 | |||||||
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Plus not really a lot of new software being released...Just look in the Zone here and you will find not only B2tR titles... Quote:
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24 December 2004, 10:44 | #9 | ||||
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I dont think that anyone got into Amiga to make a quick buck, and if they did I think they had a big shock. This small but steady revenue stream is but one of the things (the others being patent revenue, Trademark licensing etc) that helps keep whomever owns Amiga copyrights going. Quote:
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Last edited by alexh; 24 December 2004 at 10:53. |
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24 December 2004, 10:59 | #10 | ||||
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24 December 2004, 11:17 | #11 | ||||
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24 December 2004, 11:25 | #12 |
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Yes, you can sell any emulator that is based on publically available documents or reverse-engineering. it is a software product, as soon as it was a hardware product replicating the original hardware the legal standpoint would be slightly different.
There are zero, nada etc documentation on ps1 that was meant to be public in any way that was the problem, nothing else. You develop for a console through licensing the development including documentation under NDA. This is not an issue with Amiga, it was publically documented in fact C= made some respectable companies like Addison-Wesley to publish books on amiga hardware and software architecture to promote and help development. Any computers and system where documentation is publically available can be legally emulated by current laws. This is very different for systems where development was for a closed circle only. Also once you made a documentation public in any way its status is public for this matter you can't revoke it by changing your mind even if you wanted to, but you may choose not to publish publically about newer development issues. And no, Toni does or anyone else does not get paid. As for patensts and stuff almost all expired on amiga. Besides many of them including the blitter hardware and other bits and bytes put C= into trouble being violations on someone else's work ath the time they were released The ks is the result of roughly 3 months of development, and money made with it is not invested into anything whatsoever and never will be. Games had more years of work invested into them quite often, so worshipping the ks is somewhat laughable, espeically keeping in mind that buying it does not help any other development. I don't see people crying about games copied freely, so let's just don't be hypocrites at least at Christmas time But that's not the point here. We don't want to change your mind in any way, choose what fits you best. We don't say anything about ks roms, because you can find and download them using google or buy them - it's your choice, not ours. Regardless, since amiga "companies" were made of blind idiots who worshipped the ks fanatically, the only develpment effort they made went into creating massive amount of bullshit for the masses, and trying to find sites supplying ks roms. So mentioning those put sites into trouble. We don't want any sort of trouble here, we are not idiots here or deluded people just want EAB to be a safe heaven of nostalgia, not politics and corporate shite or a zealot gathering. You wanted the truth, you have the truth now. Can you handle it? If you want it legally buy it, or download/dump the one in your machine. Not anything else exactly the same version. If you are not that concerned just download anything you want. None of the money goes to today's amiga development whatsoever. If you actually want to help that, buy OS4 etc. - things that are being developed and actually some people even paid - minus the constant scandals of developers ripped off even in this small market, but that has never surfaced about Hyperion so they are good guys, unlike many of the others. And I would say by buying the ks rom you actually help Mike to improve his products. He won't make a new kickstart or os for that matter don't you have illusions about that, but he may try to create some cool stuff that he can put on the cd as a gimmick while the money was actually spent on the "gimmicks" being produced - but many people just want the ks roms anyway |
24 December 2004, 11:32 | #13 |
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I take it all back about no-one being in the Amiga are for a quick buck
http://magnussoft.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id/137 They must have licensed Kickstart, peddling WinUAE too (plus whatever the MAC equivalent is) AND there are several PD games on here. Trex Warrior - Thalion is PD only in England... I wonder if they'll get into trouble? What is worse is they could have hired someone like any number of Amiga programmers pay them beer money for a couple of weeks and get them to produce new cracks from the original games but no... they are straight original cracks...they've all got the original cracktro's on them |
24 December 2004, 11:45 | #14 | |||
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24 December 2004, 11:56 | #15 |
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There is no money to be made on amiga, period.
Having illusions about that is the biggest financial mistake you can make as many recent startups could tell as well by now To be honest in this Christmasy New Honest Talk style (CNHT (TM) & (C) by IFW 2004): when you can get others work for free why bother paying them? It can provide some earning for a person producing a cd and nice oddities he likes to do, but keeping a "real" company with anyone who does not own the company - ie does not work for free - of works for free in the first place is not possible. Of course it would be nice to give away the money for Toni or anyone but if they wanted they could have asked I am syure Toni is fine with this as is. But since UAE is GPLed anyone can sell it for any amount of money he wishes anyway without paying the authors. And yes it's him |
24 December 2004, 12:34 | #16 | |
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In the UK, it changed in 1996, and then again in 2003 to comply with the EUCD so the following is probably also true for all European countries, or soon will be. Copyright expires in artistic works 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the author dies. For sound recordings, films, broadcasts etc. it is different again. Previously, I *think* it was 50 years after the death of the author for everything. You can see more information on copyright in the UK here: http://www.intellectual-property.gov...t/how_long.htm In the US things get worse, it has all the complications of the above, and it changes all the time. It is no coincidence that the copyright length coincides with the amount of time that keeps Mickey Mouse protected. I am not kidding. Anyway, some types of works the duration of copyright is 95 years from publication, and some it is 120 years from creation. Basically, we are all likely to be dead for most things produced in our lifetime. |
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24 December 2004, 12:41 | #17 |
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As for PPC, it will fly as all nextgen consoles, PS3, Xenon and possibly whatever N will put out will depend on it.
So pracitcally hundreds of millions of households will have ppc equipment - even though they would not be aware of that. It is upto freescale, ibm and partners to make that fact publicised enough. Will that change the desktop market? Apart from price drops possibly no, since there are way too many applications that must be used in everday life and porting won't happen overnight, it is not a simply matter of recompilation, not to mention people who actually pay for software will not throw away thousands of dollars worth of software investment overnight and we are just talking about households, not companies. If feasible emulation would happen, like ppc cpus with dual cores running x86 code natively without any drawback, the desktop market situation wold drastically change too. We'll get back to this topic in 5-10 years |
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