Apidya WHDLoad - Page 4

girv · 12 July 2007, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmuChicken

... for some reason I cant even get into the info screen! ... but I set it to NTSC as default ... gah... this is my problem... my curse

You are the unexperienced fool!! This problem is not existing on any computerer that I try so you are not can be seeing it!! Amiga was designed in the US States of American so PAL mode on Amiga is an imagination and all games are NTSC. NTSC games are using less chipram because of the smaller screen lines at 60 hertz so when you try to run in the PAL modes you are running out of chipram very quickly. Even more when WHDLOAD is used! Easy! It is simple physics of display equipment! I am known this since early days in arcades! Even my dog is knowing this and he is the stupid even for dogs!!!

@StingRay: will that keep you going until the wisdom of laser reappears?

StingRay · 12 July 2007, 14:48

Thanks Girv, your "laser emulation" really made my day.

killergorilla · 12 July 2007, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by girv

Even my dog is knowing this and he is the stupid even for dogs!!!

Quote of the day.

girv · 12 July 2007, 15:03

I liked "PAL mode on Amiga is an imagination" myself

StingRay · 12 July 2007, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by girv

This problem is not existing on any computerer that I try so you are not can be seeing it!!

I dunno why but I find computerer bloody hilarious.

killergorilla · 12 July 2007, 15:20

For some reason so do I. I didn't even notice the spelling before.

Computerer...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

blade002 · 12 July 2007, 17:50

Just going back to the Chip Ram issue and what Bippym said. I agree 100% in regards to a game not loading if its allocated itself with 1.9meg of Chip Ram and if only 1.8 is available, it will not load. I had many a game not load due to this case, with Capital Punishment being a prime example. Fast Ram certainly helps ( Overkill is an example in this case ) but again, not enough Chip Ram and the game just wont load.. Nothing to do with slowing it down.

In a nutshell -: If it loads with only 2meg chip available then your in luck \

If it wont load through workbench, bring everything down to 4 colours and remove the backdrop.

If it wont load like that, then boot with no startup - assign the game disks and directories then execute the game.

But of course, the main issue here is slow game performance ???? .... I run Zool 2 with my own 030 with my Workbench running in 128 colours and 32 of Fast Ram on an A1200 and it loads every time with no slowdown.

Fast Ram is a bonus if it runs and it "will" smooth some games out.

Graham Humphrey · 12 July 2007, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade002

Just going back to the Chip Ram issue and what Bippym said. I agree 100% in regards to a game not loading if its allocated itself with 1.9meg of Chip Ram and if only 1.8 is available, it will not load. I had many a game not load due to this case, with Capital Punishment being a prime example. Fast Ram certainly helps ( Overkill is an example in this case ) but again, not enough Chip Ram and the game just wont load.. Nothing to do with slowing it down.

Also T-Zero is very greedy for chip memory (not WHDLoad-related I know), even if I turn off all my backdrops etc. I still have to boot with no startup-sequence to get the sodding thing to run.

Quote:

But of course, the main issue here is slow game performance ???? .... I run Zool 2 with my own 030 with my Workbench running in 128 colours and 32 of Fast Ram on an A1200 and it loads every time with no slowdown.

Fast Ram is a bonus if it runs and it "will" smooth some games out.

Yes, but I'm talking about 040, which accesses chip RAM slower than 030s do, which (I think) is why Zool 2 and Apidya suffer these problems, no amount of fast RAM, or reducing colours on Workbench etc. is going to help with that.

jotd · 12 July 2007, 21:45

There's also the problem of WHDLoad slaves inserting blitterwaits for very fast machines. On slow chipmem machines, it slows down the game.

I had to make a CUSTOM1 switch to disable blitter waits, whereas on my 68060 without blitter waits there were gfx glitches.

girv · 13 July 2007, 02:43

Apidya#Kaiko#in progress: 20% : update/rewrite of Mr. Larmer & Harry's installer

There are many things to fix, so I think it is easier to re-do this as a new slave but helped a lot by the existing patch source.

@jotd: do you mean adding a wait directly after the bltsize write (instead of before the first bltXXX register access) will slow down games on machines where the chipram (and therefore the blitter) is slow? I never thought of that!

StingRay · 13 July 2007, 03:33

I suppose jotd meant general blitwait patches. Imagine f.e. a big sinescroller which eats up a lot of the available rastertime, it works well on an A500 and no blitwaits are needed. Now, to make it 0x0 compatible you'd have to add the blitterwaits and the sinescroller won't run in 1 frame anymore.

Graham Humphrey · 13 July 2007, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by girv

Apidya#Kaiko#in progress: 20% : update/rewrite of Mr. Larmer & Harry's installer

Cheers girv, will be good to get this updated

jotd · 13 July 2007, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by StingRay

I suppose jotd meant general blitwait patches. Imagine f.e. a big sinescroller which eats up a lot of the available rastertime, it works well on an A500 and no blitwaits are needed. Now, to make it 0x0 compatible you'd have to add the blitterwaits and the sinescroller won't run in 1 frame anymore.

Yes, something like that.

Some games were designed for A500 and used a lot of blits in a row.

... code
move.w d0,$dff058
... code
move.w d0,$dff058

@girv: it's better to insert the blitwait BEFORE the write to dff058 because it's less likely you'll have to wait. If you insert it after, the active wait will be longer. But anyway, now I use SNOOPOCS & CHK and it tells me where to wait.

I don't think there is any problems if there are few, big blits.

The problem is (I'm not an expert on blitter operations) on slower machines, some programs using a lot of small blits in loops, and very close one to each other.
If you insert blitwaits, even if the blitwait does not wait because it is over, you still enter the loop, and it slows down the program anyway, just by calling the blitwait code (most of blitwait code do some tst.b $bfe001 stuff to be sure to read non-cacheable area and spend some more time in the loop, so the blitwait code, even if it does not loop, costs some CPU power).

On the contrary, on WinUAE with JIT on, some WHDLoad blitter fixed programs which run OK on the faster amigas still have gfx glitches because of JIT and very fast chipmem => you'll have to add more blitwaits for WinUAE usage!

Galahad/FLT · 13 July 2007, 16:31

Some games you simply can't 100% fix. Elysium by Sanity is one such case. Put all blitter waits in, and two of the effects are ruined, don't put them in and they are ruined.

Might be wise to have an option of having blit waits activated or deactivated.

That is being the sensible approach so that user can set it limits on computerer, even my grandmother is known this is right!

girv · 13 July 2007, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Might be wise to have an option of having blit waits activated or deactivated.

Or a finer grained control, so you can have them:
- off
- on, simple short loops for slower machines
- on, longer loops with extra non-cacheable reads for faster machines
- more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

That is being the sensible approach so that user can set it limits on computerer, even my grandmother is known this is right!

Aggh, the Laser Brain Disease is spreading!

StingRay · 13 July 2007, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Elysium by Sanity is one such case. Put all blitter waits in, and two of the effects are ruined, don't put them in and they are ruined.

I think even these can be fixed but it won't be trivial as it would require a great deal of recoding. What I am thinking of here is a blitter queue, triggered/handled in the VBI. Interrupt occurs once a blit is finished, this way you won't have to add additional blitterwaits. But as said, it requires a great deal of recoding so it's possibly not worth it.

girv · 20 July 2007, 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmuChicken

damnit! the apidya whdload slave on my amiga changes the signal into PAL!

It ain't the slave, the game sets PAL mode itself. This and many other problems are being addressed

girv · 23 July 2007, 02:13

Well this one is a can of (laser spitting) worms alright. Five levels, with guardians, bonus games and subscreens all needing patched separately. Me and my big mouth

The major problems are with copperlists and (lack of) blitter waits, but the menu through to the end of level 2-1 & including the angel & demon catching subgame now work perfectly with no WHDLoad hits. Also all levels 1-5 have infinite lives, credits, invulnerability and skip level trainers.

No hiscore or option saving yet, but it will come.

Whats the deal with the bonus games I've heard mentioned? I caught the little angel figure released by the caterpillar guardian at then end of Stage 1-1 and got sent to the subgame, but are there any others ? If so, how do I get to them? They'll probably need patched

Graham Humphrey · 23 July 2007, 09:59

There's one at the big fish boss at the end of Stage 2-3 - you have to go in its mouth.

girv · 23 July 2007, 10:24

Cheers

Seems there are a few more at least:
http://avians.net/~hawthorn/apidya/bonus.html

MORE patching

12 July 2007, 17:50	#67
blade002 Zone Friend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Age: 50 Posts: 2,616	Just going back to the Chip Ram issue and what Bippym said. I agree 100% in regards to a game not loading if its allocated itself with 1.9meg of Chip Ram and if only 1.8 is available, it will not load. I had many a game not load due to this case, with Capital Punishment being a prime example. Fast Ram certainly helps ( Overkill is an example in this case ) but again, not enough Chip Ram and the game just wont load.. Nothing to do with slowing it down. In a nutshell -: If it loads with only 2meg chip available then your in luck \ If it wont load through workbench, bring everything down to 4 colours and remove the backdrop. If it wont load like that, then boot with no startup - assign the game disks and directories then execute the game. But of course, the main issue here is slow game performance ???? .... I run Zool 2 with my own 030 with my Workbench running in 128 colours and 32 of Fast Ram on an A1200 and it loads every time with no slowdown. Fast Ram is a bonus if it runs and it "will" smooth some games out. Last edited by blade002; 12 July 2007 at 17:59.

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12 July 2007, 14:48	#62
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	Thanks Girv, your "laser emulation" really made my day.

12 July 2007, 15:03	#64
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	I liked "PAL mode on Amiga is an imagination" myself

12 July 2007, 15:20	#66
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	For some reason so do I. I didn't even notice the spelling before. Computerer... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

12 July 2007, 21:45	#69
jotd This cat is no more Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: FRANCE Age: 52 Posts: 8,163	There's also the problem of WHDLoad slaves inserting blitterwaits for very fast machines. On slow chipmem machines, it slows down the game. I had to make a CUSTOM1 switch to disable blitter waits, whereas on my 68060 without blitter waits there were gfx glitches.

13 July 2007, 02:43	#70
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	Apidya#Kaiko#in progress: 20% : update/rewrite of Mr. Larmer & Harry's installer There are many things to fix, so I think it is easier to re-do this as a new slave but helped a lot by the existing patch source. @jotd: do you mean adding a wait directly after the bltsize write (instead of before the first bltXXX register access) will slow down games on machines where the chipram (and therefore the blitter) is slow? I never thought of that!

13 July 2007, 03:33	#71
StingRay move.l #$c0ff33,throat Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berlin/Joymoney Posts: 6,863	I suppose jotd meant general blitwait patches. Imagine f.e. a big sinescroller which eats up a lot of the available rastertime, it works well on an A500 and no blitwaits are needed. Now, to make it 0x0 compatible you'd have to add the blitterwaits and the sinescroller won't run in 1 frame anymore.

13 July 2007, 16:31	#74
Galahad/FLT Going nowhere Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: United Kingdom Age: 50 Posts: 8,986	Some games you simply can't 100% fix. Elysium by Sanity is one such case. Put all blitter waits in, and two of the effects are ruined, don't put them in and they are ruined. Might be wise to have an option of having blit waits activated or deactivated. That is being the sensible approach so that user can set it limits on computerer, even my grandmother is known this is right!

23 July 2007, 02:13	#78
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	Well this one is a can of (laser spitting) worms alright. Five levels, with guardians, bonus games and subscreens all needing patched separately. Me and my big mouth The major problems are with copperlists and (lack of) blitter waits, but the menu through to the end of level 2-1 & including the angel & demon catching subgame now work perfectly with no WHDLoad hits. Also all levels 1-5 have infinite lives, credits, invulnerability and skip level trainers. No hiscore or option saving yet, but it will come. Whats the deal with the bonus games I've heard mentioned? I caught the little angel figure released by the caterpillar guardian at then end of Stage 1-1 and got sent to the subgame, but are there any others ? If so, how do I get to them? They'll probably need patched

23 July 2007, 09:59	#79
Graham Humphrey Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Age: 37 Posts: 11,167	There's one at the big fish boss at the end of Stage 2-3 - you have to go in its mouth.

23 July 2007, 10:24	#80
girv Mostly Harmless Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,109	Cheers Seems there are a few more at least: http://avians.net/~hawthorn/apidya/bonus.html MORE patching

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