Ambermoon whdload ?

Tony Landais · 01 May 2007, 12:46

Is there any particular reason why Ambermoon never been patched?
Lack of interest or technical issues..?

alexh · 01 May 2007, 14:14

Because it doesnt need WHDLoad patching.

It has a fully working hard disk installer and works with all processors upto and including 68060 and all versions of OS/Kickstart upto and including OS3.9.

That said there ARE updates available for the German version.

The final binaries from Thalion for the German version was v1.05.

If you are unlucky enough to have a copy of 1.0 (which has some problems with 040) you can get the update from the Aminet.

The German V1.05 still had some problems with some 060 accelerators and was patched by a third party in 1998 by Sam Jordan (author of WarpOS Kernel) and this update too is available on the Aminet.

----------------------------------------------

The final binaries from Thalion for the English version was v1.07. This version has no issues with 040 or 060 (at least not for me).

The English version of the game has some bugs. Afterall the English version was never fully beta tested or released commercially. The bugs are mainly typo's of control codes in the script files which cause the parser to crash. They were introduced during the German->English translation of said files.

The MAJORITY of the bugs are documented on the Thalion Webshrine together with a workaround for the worse of them.

Lets start a STORY?

In 1999 I was contacted by a Polish(?) Amiga programmer, a fan of the Thalion Webshrine, who wanted to fix the bugs in the V1.07 version. He created some 3rd party Amiga tools (in ASM) for decrypting, unpacking and splitting the broken .AMB files which contain the broken script files. He worked with me to find the bugs, the nature of them and develop several fixes. He dropped off the radar in 2001 before the work/tools were completed.

Later in 2001 I was contacted again by an Italian Amiga programmer who wanted to translate the game into Italian. I showed him the beta versions of the tools that had been created and he went on to find lots more bugs and lots more fixes. HOWEVER the work was never completed and never beta tested. The tools never worked to a level I was happy with when it came to re-joining the files for use by the game. Particularly when it came to re-creating the CRC of the files following editing.

In 2003 I was contacted again by a PC programmer who wanted to produce a PC version of Ambermoon and perhaps a sequel. They disassembled the Amiga binaries and created several open source C programs for editing the Ambermoon Graphics tiles, files etc. These are hosted on sourceforge under the project name Amberworld

They got the name wrong a little bit, Karsten Koeper, creator of the Amber series had intended the next game to be called Amberworlds

The tools while allowing you to decrypt, depack and split the Ambermoon .amb files (into units where you could fix said bugs) it cannot rejoin the files.

I know which files the bugs are in, I know what the bugs are, in most cases I know how to fix the bugs.

What I dont know is if the fixes are safe (with incorrect CRC's).

The original Thalion V1.07 files allow you to finish the game, the last thing I would want to do is release untested files which break more than they fix.

If someone wanted to re-start the work on the open-source tools, adding script checking, CRC generation, file-joining etc. then I would help out and embrace the work.

I hope this answers your question.

Npl · 11 May 2007, 18:12

A bit offtopic, but how is Albion related to the series? I always though it was the (unofficial) third part.

alexh · 11 May 2007, 18:35

After Thalion finished Ambermoon they began the final part of the Trilogy, Amberworlds on an A1200. However it was 1994, Thalion was in financial difficulty and the main team left and joined Bluebyte where they continued their work under the new name and plot of Albion.

Commodore went bankrupt towards the end of 1994 and with no more computers being made the platform was switched to x86 PC (or perhaps Amiga support was dropped).

Two very early demos of Albion for the A1200 exist.

One is just a technology demo of the port of the 3D texture map engine to AGA.

The other is an actual 3D level from Albion with Albion textures and sprites (albeit not 100% functional as a level)

http://aminet.net/package/game/demo/albion

13 September 2007, 11:37

Well, one good reason for a WHDload slave would be the preload option, which would probably speed up the loading times. I'm still hoping for a slave.

alexh · 13 September 2007, 12:14

I guess that would be possible. However you would need about 10Meg of RAM perhaps more.

Seems like a lot of work, just to save 2-3 seconds every 20 mins or so.

13 September 2007, 12:29

I have 32Meg installed, so I guess it would work for me.

Actually, I don't know how much time it would take to program a slave for it, I'm just a user. But wouldn't it be quite simple to just copy all files from the disks, since the game doens't need any serious patching?

alexh · 13 September 2007, 12:44

If you have 32Meg, cant you play the regular HD installed version from RAM disk?

13 September 2007, 13:35

Good idea, I guess that might work, haven't tried it yet.

DDNI · 13 September 2007, 14:30

from RAM be sure to save to a Floppy or HDD folder. If It crashes you lose your progress.... happened to me 3 hours in just last night!

alexh · 13 September 2007, 14:43

Use a RAD disk and you should be ok.

DDNI · 13 September 2007, 17:12

hindsight alexh, its a woderful thing!

alexh · 13 September 2007, 18:13

The comment was really for Kevin,

Ambermoon doesnt let you choose your save DIR it defaults to wherever it was launched from, so you cannot run from RAM disk and choose to save to a hard-disk or floppy disk.

So a RAD drive maybe the only option.

meynaf · 15 November 2007, 15:41

I've just came upon this :

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

I know which files the bugs are in, I know what the bugs are, in most cases I know how to fix the bugs.

If you know where the fixes are to be done (especially those untranslated german place names I've never found), then please tell me.

I borrowed some code from the game to make my tools (they're very user-unfriendly Amiga cli programs), and I have no split/rejoin/crc problems.

Then I'll make the patches, and we'll all end up with a much better version of that awesome game !

Patches I already did are :
- Luminor's tower 3 - Text on the door to Valdyn.
- Beast's cave - Text for skeleton.
- Temple of Gala - Text on crystal ball's.
- Riddlemouth in Illien - "ring" in dictionnary.
- Whirlpool - Missing textblock (I translated it from german - how painful

)
- Bug when going near to coord 1,1
- Burnville - House of artists text
- Thieves' Guild shop - open 1-8 pm -> am
- Snakesign healer - same as guild shop (am/pm mismatch)
- Hoimon desert - Text "Lizards burst out of the sand" incorrectly terminated
- Some chars values could not reach maximum (use magic / learn magic on Leonaria / Sabine and swimming on Valdyn) because of magical item's bonus not taken into account
- Unterminated text on spider web just before the secret passage caused next text ("as if something very old and very large were awakening from an eternal sleep") to be displayed
- "this text block doesn't exist" in forest moon ruins (missing text, I had to translate the german myself, grrr...)

I have an lha archive which contains the modified files, it's now in the zone. Just make a backup and replace your files with them (though this won't fix existing saved games for the character values bug, you'll have to start over).

Too bad the sources of Ambermoon were lost in ages... (or I suppose it's so)

alexh · 15 November 2007, 20:41

The A2000 computer with the Thalion source code was binned about 3-4 years ago when Erik Simon left Blue Byte

He had said he would send it me in 2000 and never got round to it. An opportunity lost I am afraid.

I will provide the file numbers and line numbers of all the other script/text bugs that were discovered and fixed.

Some fixes are binary patches to am_cpu and am_blit too. The Sensrie's key one for example.

Are you going to post the tools/ (and or source) also?

dlfrsilver · 16 November 2007, 00:07

Yes this would be great

meynaf · 16 November 2007, 09:53

Well, if you ask for it...

You'll need phxass to assemble them, OS3.0+ to run them and probably 020+, I don't remember.
I'll look at that this week-end and post the stuff here on monday.

derringer · 16 November 2007, 21:28

i have 128MB ram, hmmm... will try ambermoon on rad this weekend... thanks for the info.

meynaf · 19 November 2007, 11:09

Tools uploaded !

In the zone : amb-tools.zip

Those little tools can extract/replace items in those .amb files.
However they're untested on any machine but mine. Don't take as granted that they will work on your configuration !
I also *strongly* suggest that you make your tests in ram:

Both binaries and sources are there, along with a little readme file for their usage.

Happy hacking !

hexaae · 12 January 2008, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexh

Later in 2001 I was contacted again by an Italian Amiga programmer who wanted to translate the game into Italian. I showed him the beta versions of the tools that had been created and he went on to find lots more bugs and lots more fixes. HOWEVER the work was never completed and never beta tested. The tools never worked to a level I was happy with when it came to re-joining the files for use by the game. Particularly when it came to re-creating the CRC of the files following editing.

Here I am, my friend...

So you want to complete the unfinished work, uh? I still have all fixes and tools on the WUAE side...
Ambermoon is one of the best RPG ever done on any platform.

01 May 2007, 12:46	#1
Tony Landais Zone Friend Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: uk Posts: 426	Ambermoon whdload ? Is there any particular reason why Ambermoon never been patched? Lack of interest or technical issues..?

01 May 2007, 14:14	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	Because it doesnt need WHDLoad patching. It has a fully working hard disk installer and works with all processors upto and including 68060 and all versions of OS/Kickstart upto and including OS3.9. That said there ARE updates available for the German version. The final binaries from Thalion for the German version was v1.05. If you are unlucky enough to have a copy of 1.0 (which has some problems with 040) you can get the update from the Aminet. The German V1.05 still had some problems with some 060 accelerators and was patched by a third party in 1998 by Sam Jordan (author of WarpOS Kernel) and this update too is available on the Aminet. ---------------------------------------------- The final binaries from Thalion for the English version was v1.07. This version has no issues with 040 or 060 (at least not for me). The English version of the game has some bugs. Afterall the English version was never fully beta tested or released commercially. The bugs are mainly typo's of control codes in the script files which cause the parser to crash. They were introduced during the German->English translation of said files. The MAJORITY of the bugs are documented on the Thalion Webshrine together with a workaround for the worse of them. Lets start a STORY? In 1999 I was contacted by a Polish(?) Amiga programmer, a fan of the Thalion Webshrine, who wanted to fix the bugs in the V1.07 version. He created some 3rd party Amiga tools (in ASM) for decrypting, unpacking and splitting the broken .AMB files which contain the broken script files. He worked with me to find the bugs, the nature of them and develop several fixes. He dropped off the radar in 2001 before the work/tools were completed. Later in 2001 I was contacted again by an Italian Amiga programmer who wanted to translate the game into Italian. I showed him the beta versions of the tools that had been created and he went on to find lots more bugs and lots more fixes. HOWEVER the work was never completed and never beta tested. The tools never worked to a level I was happy with when it came to re-joining the files for use by the game. Particularly when it came to re-creating the CRC of the files following editing. In 2003 I was contacted again by a PC programmer who wanted to produce a PC version of Ambermoon and perhaps a sequel. They disassembled the Amiga binaries and created several open source C programs for editing the Ambermoon Graphics tiles, files etc. These are hosted on sourceforge under the project name Amberworld They got the name wrong a little bit, Karsten Koeper, creator of the Amber series had intended the next game to be called Amberworlds The tools while allowing you to decrypt, depack and split the Ambermoon .amb files (into units where you could fix said bugs) it cannot rejoin the files. I know which files the bugs are in, I know what the bugs are, in most cases I know how to fix the bugs. What I dont know is if the fixes are safe (with incorrect CRC's). The original Thalion V1.07 files allow you to finish the game, the last thing I would want to do is release untested files which break more than they fix. If someone wanted to re-start the work on the open-source tools, adding script checking, CRC generation, file-joining etc. then I would help out and embrace the work. I hope this answers your question. Last edited by alexh; 01 May 2007 at 14:26.

15 November 2007, 20:41	#15
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	The A2000 computer with the Thalion source code was binned about 3-4 years ago when Erik Simon left Blue Byte He had said he would send it me in 2000 and never got round to it. An opportunity lost I am afraid. I will provide the file numbers and line numbers of all the other script/text bugs that were discovered and fixed. Some fixes are binary patches to am_cpu and am_blit too. The Sensrie's key one for example. Are you going to post the tools/ (and or source) also? Last edited by alexh; 15 November 2007 at 20:48.

16 November 2007, 09:53	#17
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	Well, if you ask for it... You'll need phxass to assemble them, OS3.0+ to run them and probably 020+, I don't remember. I'll look at that this week-end and post the stuff here on monday. Last edited by meynaf; 16 November 2007 at 10:02.

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11 May 2007, 18:12	#3
Npl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Vienna / Austria Age: 44 Posts: 257	A bit offtopic, but how is Albion related to the series? I always though it was the (unofficial) third part.

11 May 2007, 18:35	#4
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	After Thalion finished Ambermoon they began the final part of the Trilogy, Amberworlds on an A1200. However it was 1994, Thalion was in financial difficulty and the main team left and joined Bluebyte where they continued their work under the new name and plot of Albion. Commodore went bankrupt towards the end of 1994 and with no more computers being made the platform was switched to x86 PC (or perhaps Amiga support was dropped). Two very early demos of Albion for the A1200 exist. One is just a technology demo of the port of the 3D texture map engine to AGA. The other is an actual 3D level from Albion with Albion textures and sprites (albeit not 100% functional as a level) http://aminet.net/package/game/demo/albion

13 September 2007, 11:37	#5
KevinW Posts: n/a	Well, one good reason for a WHDload slave would be the preload option, which would probably speed up the loading times. I'm still hoping for a slave.

13 September 2007, 12:14	#6
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	I guess that would be possible. However you would need about 10Meg of RAM perhaps more. Seems like a lot of work, just to save 2-3 seconds every 20 mins or so.

13 September 2007, 12:29	#7
KevinW Posts: n/a	I have 32Meg installed, so I guess it would work for me. Actually, I don't know how much time it would take to program a slave for it, I'm just a user. But wouldn't it be quite simple to just copy all files from the disks, since the game doens't need any serious patching?

13 September 2007, 12:44	#8
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	If you have 32Meg, cant you play the regular HD installed version from RAM disk?

13 September 2007, 13:35	#9
KevinW Posts: n/a	Good idea, I guess that might work, haven't tried it yet.

13 September 2007, 14:30	#10
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,432	from RAM be sure to save to a Floppy or HDD folder. If It crashes you lose your progress.... happened to me 3 hours in just last night!

13 September 2007, 14:43	#11
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	Use a RAD disk and you should be ok.

13 September 2007, 17:12	#12
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,432	hindsight alexh, its a woderful thing!

13 September 2007, 18:13	#13
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	The comment was really for Kevin, Ambermoon doesnt let you choose your save DIR it defaults to wherever it was launched from, so you cannot run from RAM disk and choose to save to a hard-disk or floppy disk. So a RAD drive maybe the only option.

16 November 2007, 00:07	#16
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,438	Yes this would be great

16 November 2007, 21:28	#18
derringer Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Budapest/Hungary Posts: 13	i have 128MB ram, hmmm... will try ambermoon on rad this weekend... thanks for the info.

19 November 2007, 11:09	#19
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	Tools uploaded ! In the zone : amb-tools.zip Those little tools can extract/replace items in those .amb files. However they're untested on any machine but mine. Don't take as granted that they will work on your configuration ! I also strongly suggest that you make your tests in ram: Both binaries and sources are there, along with a little readme file for their usage. Happy hacking !

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