Stardust is the first game to use pre-rendered 3D graphics?

[drHirudo]

While searching for some information about Silicon Graphics, I came to this on Wikipedia:

Donkey Kong Country is one of the first games for a mainstream home video game console to use pre-rendered 3D graphics,[14] a technique used in the earlier 1993 Finnish game Stardust for the Amiga, and later in Rare's Killer Instinct

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country

Is it true?

I remember around 1994 pre-rendered 3D sprites started to appear in games for example in the racing isometric game Skidmarks, also in Syndicate and many other games.

But Stardust seems to be the first one to have pre-rendered graphics. It looks like they used Amiga Imagine and did it in late 1992, when the hardware wasn't that powerful for complex 3D rendered graphics.

[Foebane]

Well, there's no way in HELL that the Stardust graphics are hand-drawn, that's for sure!

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Well, there's no way in HELL that the Stardust graphics are hand-drawn, that's for sure!

And nobody is claiming that either...

[jPV]

Originally Posted by drHirudo

But Stardust seems to be the first one to have pre-rendered graphics. It looks like they used Amiga Imagine and did it in late 1992, when the hardware wasn't that powerful for complex 3D rendered graphics.

They did render the graphics with Real3D (also a Finnish program), with Amiga 4000 setup(s) IIRC.

But funny if it really was the first game using pre-rendered 3D graphics... somehow hard to believe it wouldn't have been done earlier.

[d4rk3lf]

Originally Posted by Foebane

Well, there's no way in HELL that the Stardust graphics are hand-drawn, that's for sure!

It can be done using "one point perspective" drawing principle, but it would be a lot of manual job, and measuring, even it's only a couple of frames.
So yes, they used 3D app to create this, because it's so much faster, and they could try various different graphics, very fast.

[ Show youtube player ]

[Seiya]

i found this great review about Stardust
http://codetapper.com/amiga/sprite-tricks/stardust/

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by drHirudo

While searching for some information about Silicon Graphics, I came to this on Wikipedia:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country

Is it true?

I remember around 1994 pre-rendered 3D sprites started to appear in games for example in the racing isometric game Skidmarks, also in Syndicate and many other games.

But Stardust seems to be the first one to have pre-rendered graphics. It looks like they used Amiga Imagine and did it in late 1992, when the hardware wasn't that powerful for complex 3D rendered graphics.

No. Psygnosis were first if you include their intros.

The Killing Game Show, Nitro, Awesome. All use rendered graphics for the intros.

[Steve]

This is quite interesting because I always thought Skidmarks was the first game to use pre-rendered sprites. I'm not sure which came first but they are around the same time. Both Skidmarks (Imagine rendered vehicles) and Stardust were reviewed in the same Amiga Format issue. Actually the first issue of any Amiga magazine I ever bought.

http://amr.abime.net/issue_211_pages

[Cubemon]

At least Blasteroids used pre-rendered 3D sprites in 1987.

[ Show youtube player ]

Mukor rules all galaxies.

[Cherno]

Wing Commander (1990) also used pre-rendered sprites.

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Steve

This is quite interesting because I always thought Skidmarks was the first game to use pre-rendered sprites. I'm not sure which came first but they are around the same time. Both Skidmarks (Imagine rendered vehicles) and Stardust were reviewed in the same Amiga Format issue. Actually the first issue of any Amiga magazine I ever bought.

http://amr.abime.net/issue_211_pages

After looking earlier, Stardust was down for a July release and the review failed to appear in the next issue of AP nor any other Amiga mag till the Christmas/Dec issues, so more than likely around the same time as Skidmarks (November).

[Galahad/FLT]

Just a recap, Psygnosis were earlier than everyone as they bought some Silicon Graphics Indy machines for their foray into CD Rom stuff and lots of the Amiga intros were rendered on the Indy, starting in 1990

Armour-Geddon
Combat Air Patrol
Awesome
Nitro
The Killing Game Show
Microcosm
Walker

[Mikerochip]

Wikipedia says that Xevious was the first game to use rendered graphics, in 1982.

Citing Next Generation magazine, Issue 21, Page 39.

https://namcompendium.wordpress.com/...um-14-xevious/ says it too, but neither say where they got the info.

That beats everyone else by a huge amount if true!

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Mikerochip

Wikipedia says that Xevious was the first game to use rendered graphics, in 1982.

Citing Next Generation magazine, Issue 21, Page 39.

https://namcompendium.wordpress.com/...um-14-xevious/ says it too, but neither say where they got the info.

That beats everyone else by a huge amount if true!

Yeah i'm not sure how they can get away with a claim like that.

For one, was there even the technology to render stuff in 1982?

The Last Starfighter movie was in 1984, on a Cray XMP Super computer, and it was all coordinate based software to draw that lot onscreen, inputting numbers from grid paper based references.

I see nothing in Xevious that would justify that level of power, and seemingly only used once for a rather crappy looking game.

[Amigajay]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Just a recap, Psygnosis were earlier than everyone as they bought some Silicon Graphics Indy machines for their foray into CD Rom stuff and lots of the Amiga intros were rendered on the Indy, starting in 1990

Armour-Geddon
Combat Air Patrol
Awesome
Nitro
The Killing Game Show
Microcosm
Walker

Yeah that was the obvious thought at first, but intro’s aside did they use pre-rendered sprites in-game pre 1993? Most looked hand drawn bar the Walker sprite and that came out April 1993, not much earlier than the two games mentioned above.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Yeah i'm not sure how they can get away with a claim like that.

For one, was there even the technology to render stuff in 1982?

Here is a rendered hand animation from (drum roll please).... 1972!!

[ Show youtube player ]

[lilalurl]

Regarding Xevious, I'd think the rotating tiles you can see at 3:50:
[ Show youtube player ]

might be pre-rendered to give that 3D effect (including the lightning aspect).

[Shatterhand]

I don't think they are. 2 days ago I just draw something like those rotating tiles by hand (Well, mouse), and I am an awful gfx artist They aren't hard to do honestly. I used less frames than Xevious does but, still, not hard.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by lilalurl

Regarding Xevious, I'd think the rotating tiles you can see at 3:50:
[ Show youtube player ]

might be pre-rendered to give that 3D effect (including the lightning aspect).

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

I don't think they are. 2 days ago I just draw something like those rotating tiles by hand (Well, mouse), and I am an awful gfx artist They aren't hard to do honestly. I used less frames than Xevious does but, still, not hard.

OF COURSE those tiles are NOT pre-rendered! They are so simple to draw and animate that it would be POINTLESS NOT to hand-draw them!

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Steve

Here is a rendered hand animation from (drum roll please).... 1972!!

[ Show youtube player ]

Pretty impressive for the day, but the clue is in text "University of Utah".

Lots of American Universities had the resources to have very expensive machines on campus, and I guess Utah had the resources for some quite extraordinary computing power (for 1972).

I'm still doubting the veracity of the Xevious claim, because theres nothing remotely about the graphics in Xevious that suggest rendering would be quicker than hand animating.

I mean, they made fuck all effort on the music, but supposedly went all out to render some of the enemies!

Just sounds to me like one of those urban legends that stuck, no-one knows where it came from, but everyone believes it.

I certainly see no evidence of Namco using the techniques in further games, which surely, if it was an advanced technique for the day, it would be used more and more.

I don't know, just i'm not so ready to believe it, theres just nothing in Xevious that screams "look at me, i'm rendered baby, and I look all the better for it!!!"