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Old 25 September 2018, 15:20   #61
OlafSch
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"The problem is that there were may ways to enhance the programming flexibility and what has been done is the exact opposite."

I do not really understand what you mean
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:31   #62
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@kolla:
Please tell me, why your are so dedicated to criticize the whole work of the Apollo team.

Be the change you want for this world OR let they do their work. I know enough people who know everything better, but don't do something to make it happen.
IMHO "the same two-three guys" already did a lot till now, BUT such a great work need time - unfortunately more time than initially assumed.

Did you ever ask, what you could do for this project and not against?
Please tell me.
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:31   #63
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Again, one more topic destroyed. I think purpose of the topic was related to core release.
I ll try to sum up this non related discussion.
First, let's be honest, how many people on Amiga scene ever heard about terms like FPGA, Quartus, Cyclone etc... before this project happened. I know on my side that I got familiar with them few years ago. It is better to read about how modern ASIC's are done than discuss over and over that what we do is emulation.

@nexus if you can offer cheaper parts, organize production, testings etc... please contact me, I would be happy to lower prices of the cards.

@kolla so much negativity, about something, ever, in my life, I have never seen. So much frustration, anger. I would strongly advise you to never read anything Apollo-core related it will definitely ruin your health.

People, think of all of this as an option, one more beside others to chose. And, again, you don't need to do it. No one is pushing. There are plenty of other project for our small community. It is good that we have now many developers who are doing some work. Remember that for several years we didn't have many options. Only right thing for every single one of those developers is to respect their will, time and effort put into Amiga related projects.
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:32   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
No, I paid for it. Though a lot less than what I paid for Vampire V600v2 and Vampire V500v2. I have them all and use them all. You say you don't even have a Vampire, so what do you know.
Well, what should I know? Is there anything in particular?

I'm sorry that the high price of your Vampires hurt you so much. Are you still mad at the Vampire team because they wouldn't give them to you for free in exchange for praises on various boards/forums? And now you're getting back at them with constant crapping in every Vampire thread. Very mature!
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:35   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
@kolla

* interest for apollo core outside Amiga is minimal/non-existing

What had you (or anyone else) expected?
Indeed, what could any sane person expect? Well, there were high hopes for some time among certain individuals.

Quote:
* interest and enthusiasm for apollo core inside Amiga communities is dwindling

How do you measure that?
Activity on the topic, owners (not me, nor chucky) who on various forums say they have replaced Vampire cards with Furia for A600 and other cards for A500, comments from owners (again, not me nor chucky) who are less than happy about the product.

Quote:
* coders and developers are not flocking to support apollo core

Which coders?
Indeed. Those who Gunnar thought would magically pop up from thin air?

Quote:
* still no support in any toolchains and compilers
* so all software support comes from the same two-three guys

You are right there... one of the weaknesses of gunnar
He could have chosen a different path, one that may have been less interesting for him personally, but much more productive for the Amiga community and 68k development in large.

Quote:
* other hardware manufacturers are not interested

Which other hardware manufacturers should? It is a niche product for retro market. Besides, we do not know if there are talks in background or not.
Those other manufacturers making FPGA cards who can get "060 level" softcore for free, which user then can update, remember? Like you, I could not quite grasp who he was talking about, besides perhaps Jens.

Quote:
* prices for hardware is not as low as he wanted (and he was warned)

yes... but compared to the high prices of the old hardware it is still good money (if you need real hardware)
If you need "real hardware", then an Apollo Core FPGA solution is perhaps not so interesting in the first place anyways. Prices for "real hardware" is still up in the sky.

Quote:
* becoming the new "baseline" for 68k Amiga hardware is not happening

Baseline does not necessarily mean adapted software, it might be that people develop more demanding software that needs more resources than current hardware base (68030 + some ram). It is a individual decision.
Well, whatever definition of "baseline", it doesn't seem to be happening.

Quote:
* delays and more delays, and he used to ridicule others for delays

I do not know where he ridiculed others because of delays. Mostly he was attacked
He ridiculed anything powerpc amiga related for delays. He ridiculed Jens for delays. He ridiculed TerribleFire and others for doing just silly 030 cards.

Quote:
* core was criticised for being too tied to a specific FPGA, now struggles with porting it

Where do you know both? Involved in development and you know the FPGA code?
People who were in involved in the project early on has mentioned this, Matthey for example. That porting to CycloneV is/has been tricky has been openly admitted on the apollo-core forum on several occasions.

BTW - you _still_ don't have any hands on experience with the Apollo Core, do you?
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:36   #66
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It's apollo core that should support coders and developers, not the other way around.
Presicely.
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:39   #67
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
I have to say though it is tiresome that all threads about the product decend into some sort of slagging match and reported post generator.
Maybe you should check the pattern then? Vampire thread opens > same couple of people start crapping on in > mod don't react > shitstorm ensues. Maybe eliminate step two and you can actually have a decent conversation.

Or if you don't believe me, believe yourself:



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It's getting to the point when we may as well close the threads as soon as they are opened.
Do you really think shutting down conversation is the solution instead of dealing with the source of this problem?
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:40   #68
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Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM View Post
Does this mean that you will never have 100% compatibility?
Define "compatibility" - if a piece of AGA software runs exactly the same way on SAGA as it does on AGA, then for that piece of software, compatibility is 100%.

If you are asking if SAGA can work exactly like AGA 100% of the time, with all software, then of course the answer is no. Just like one A1200 cannot work exactly like another A1200, with all software, due to tiny variations in hardware (chip revisions, manufacturers, cpu cards, other hardware addons etc etc.)
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:41   #69
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
BTW - you _still_ don't have any hands on experience with the Apollo Core, do you?
No I am happy using UAE... but I am not the one constantly whining on any amiga related forum about gunnar and the shitty vampires...

BTW why do you not accept my advice and sell your vampires... it should still be possible without problems

I recommended that a couple of times already but you do not react, instead you seem to keep them just to have a reason to whine

Sounds a little strange, doesn´t it?

And could you post links to unhappy vampire owners that sold them again and bought something different?

I read amiga related forums regularly and have not read anything like that

BTW they offered the core for free but only how it is without adding extra work for free. If someone would like something different he would have to pay. To me that sounds fair. And Jens attacked Gunnar first and tried to make him look silly. I remember that very good.

Last edited by OlafSch; 25 September 2018 at 15:58.
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:46   #70
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It would be really nice to discuss the merits and features of core 3.0 alpha.
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Old 25 September 2018, 15:59   #71
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First, let's be honest, how many people on Amiga scene ever heard about terms like FPGA
Jens (famously, almost) announced that FPGA was the future for retro computing way, way back. Around year 2000, if I should guess.

Quote:
@kolla so much negativity, about something, ever, in my life, I have never seen. So much frustration, anger. I would strongly advise you to never read anything Apollo-core related it will definitely ruin your health.
I am sure you have seen worse, much worse, considering your location and age. No worries, my health, both mentally and otherwise, is just fine. But thank you for worrying so much. Yes, there was a period of frustration, but I am well over that. Surprisingly, I have received quite few support messages from people who have had their "encounters" with "the team" up through the years, and who are happy that at least someone can

Quote:
Remember that for several years we didn't have many options. Only right thing for every single one of those developers is to respect their will, time and effort put into Amiga related projects.
Exactly. And likewise among developers, and from developers to users etc, we are all people.
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Old 25 September 2018, 16:04   #72
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Yes they are few people who had very bad experience with the team, especially with me. But that's another story, again not related to this topic.

Must say that Jens was right Again, like people suggested you, you should sell your vampire cards. If you have problems selling them I ll buy them.
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Old 25 September 2018, 16:21   #73
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This a thread about the release of the Gold 3 alpha, can we focus on this topic and put aside the 100 times repeated complaint on the side?
Can maybe the moderators finaly see that and don't let the thread escalade as each time ?
Thanks
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Old 25 September 2018, 16:29   #74
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Really! Comparing this forum with others, this one is the less Vampire friendly!
It's almost dangerous posting Vampire stuff around here..
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Old 25 September 2018, 16:40   #75
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Did I just see Majsta drive away in a Maserati ?
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Old 25 September 2018, 16:46   #76
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Old 25 September 2018, 17:03   #77
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Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
Maybe you should check the pattern then? Vampire thread opens > same couple of people start crapping on in > mod don't react > shitstorm ensues. Maybe eliminate step two and you can actually have a decent conversation.

Do you really think shutting down conversation is the solution instead of dealing with the source of this problem?
But what is the source of the problem?
I do not think Kolla, since he makes valid points here. Not everybody likes the way he thinks, but this is no reason for censorship.
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Old 25 September 2018, 17:04   #78
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Last edited by Signman; 25 September 2018 at 18:52.
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Old 25 September 2018, 17:11   #79
Lord Aga
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@Gorf
You think the "trolling crusader", as a moderator called him, is not the problem?
Mixing some valid points with deliberate lies is not the problem?
Maybe you are right. Who am I to judge.

But you, being German, can check out the A1K forum. Check out the Vampire threads and you will see that they are way more civil. You will also see the reason WHY those threads are way more civil and productive.

I gotta give it to you Germans. You are mighty efficient in pinpointing the problem.
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Old 25 September 2018, 17:14   #80
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Originally Posted by E-Penguin View Post
It would be really nice to discuss the merits and features of core 3.0 alpha.
Adding chipset functionality to the FPGA-core, was treated as a "no-brainer" on the Apollo forum (even dating back to Natami).
As it turns out this feature comes not so easy and takes probably more FPGA-space than anticipated ... who would have thought ...


I still dream of having AGA in my A3000, but as far as I know, there are no plans for big box Amigas

Last edited by Gorf; 25 September 2018 at 17:24.
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