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Old 18 May 2018, 16:19   #21
Estrayk
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Originally Posted by britelite View Post
Some parts run like crap on a 386 and even a low-end 486, so it definitely is aimed for a higher end 486 (I think a 486dx2/66 was used as compo machine at Assembly '93 where the demo was displayed). And to be honest, the codework in Second Reality isn't very impressive, the only thing (for me) that makes it worth watching is the music.
So you think that with the current knowledge and applying new algorithms could be a pixel perfect version in stock A1200?
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Old 18 May 2018, 17:53   #22
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To be honest, visually, Second Reality is really nothing special, but sonically, it's legendary. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the soundtrack at least 16-bit and 8 channels minimum? AGA came along to make the Amiga visually equal to the PC on this demo, but it surely beats the Amiga on the music, hands down.
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Old 18 May 2018, 18:21   #23
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So you think that with the current knowledge and applying new algorithms could be a pixel perfect version in stock A1200?
Nope, a pixel perfect version needs a beefier machine.
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Old 18 May 2018, 20:21   #24
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To be honest, visually, Second Reality is really nothing special, but sonically, it's legendary. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the soundtrack at least 16-bit and 8 channels minimum? AGA came along to make the Amiga visually equal to the PC on this demo, but it surely beats the Amiga on the music, hands down.
Did you find a noticeable difference between the music in the video of the first post with the original .s3m?

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Nope, a pixel perfect version needs a beefier machine.
Thanks Britelite but forgive for insisting so much on this subject, but your answer I think it can be interesting for many. What machine do you think would be needed to make a perfect conversion? 030/50?
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Old 18 May 2018, 20:56   #25
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I remember having seen SR at a friend home when the Gravis Ultrasound was the latest 5h17 and being blown away by the audio part - the massive Hi-Fi speakers under the table indeed did help!

Funny part he (former amigan) was showcasing me the ultrasound using some Amiga mods too! (including jimihendrix.mod and Guitar Slinger)
Later on, when i did seize my brother old hi-fi and plugged into my 1200 had my sweet revenge
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Old 18 May 2018, 21:15   #26
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Did you find a noticeable difference between the music in the video of the first post with the original .s3m?
Sorry, didn't see the OP of your thread. Good job on the mod!

When I posted the above, I had just had a quick look and listen to the PC original direct from the prod's Pouet page via a YouTube link, but now I've heard yours after reading this reply, it sounds quite close and faithful, even more remarkable if the s3m version has a higher spec. It'd be a shame if it wasn't put to use on an Amiga conversion.
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Old 18 May 2018, 21:32   #27
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It'd be a shame if it wasn't put to use on an Amiga conversion.
I still don't quite get why would you convert a demo which is clearly a ripoff of Desert Dream.
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Old 19 May 2018, 14:03   #28
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I would say that many OCS demos have stood the test of time better than Second Reality. It's great in the audio department, but graphically, nothing worth porting in my opinion.
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Old 20 May 2018, 14:17   #29
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Thanks Britelite but forgive for insisting so much on this subject, but your answer I think it can be interesting for many. What machine do you think would be needed to make a perfect conversion? 030/50?
I'd say 040/060-class machine if you want all parts to run decently.
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Old 27 May 2018, 02:46   #30
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this pc demo is beautiful, if touhou's bad apple was ported virtually everywhere for art reasons i don't see why second reality wouldn't be appraised for the same
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Old 27 May 2018, 12:48   #31
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this pc demo is beautiful, if touhou's bad apple was ported virtually everywhere for art reasons i don't see why second reality wouldn't be appraised for the same
You CAN'T be serious.
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Old 27 May 2018, 16:18   #32
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why can't i? i particularly appreciate more demos that can drive you to feel more than dp tech

one of the reason of why i consider SR a memorable demo, it didn't need to do too much to touch deep, if anything the skill of telling a lot without overdoing effects is something to respect in a demo, BUT that's just matter of tastes tho

other reason is that also people seems to forget this is a ms-dos demo aimed to run in very old machines, it still stands out graphically-wise comparing with others on the platform imo

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Old 27 May 2018, 20:02   #33
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it still stands out graphically-wise comparing with others on the platform imo
Only place where it stands out compared to other DOS-demos of it's era is the music, the graphics are terrible.
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Old 27 May 2018, 20:21   #34
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if touhou's bad apple was ported virtually everywhere for art reasons i don't see why second reality wouldn't be appraised for the same
Bad Apple is an animation, not a demo, so it gives coders the opportunity to show off their own video compression or vector animation routines.

Remaking Second Reality on lesser platforms, while a huge task, just feels like a cheap way to get attention to possibly subpar routines that wouldn't cut it in an original demo.
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Old 27 May 2018, 22:47   #35
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graphics are matter of tastes tho

Bad Apple was a bad example to compare tbh, i just wanted to state i find SR a nice artwork and i happen to go back to it after every often, i wouldn't mind seeing a port in another console

true that may not be the best choice to use their routines in a new demo but the whole thing has a place in my heart, also for nostalgia matters lol
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Old 28 May 2018, 00:38   #36
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graphics are matter of tastes tho

Bad Apple was a bad example to compare tbh, i just wanted to state i find SR a nice artwork and i happen to go back to it after every often, i wouldn't mind seeing a port in another console

true that may not be the best choice to use their routines in a new demo but the whole thing has a place in my heart, also for nostalgia matters lol
I've seen many high-end Amiga demos that blow SR out of the water, and require similar or lesser processing power. I could provide a list if you like?
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Old 28 May 2018, 01:12   #37
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is always good to have amiga demos recommended! i'd really appreciate it!

though i think it's a bit unfair to compare demos for two platforms so wildly different in specs/timelines to see which is better
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Old 28 May 2018, 08:20   #38
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I've seen many high-end Amiga demos that blow SR out of the water, and require similar or lesser processing power.
Just remember that 060 is out of the question in that case

Also, if you really want to be fair you can't include demos made later than the early/mid-90's.
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Old 28 May 2018, 08:32   #39
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Also, if you really want to be fair you can't include demos made later than the early/mid-90's.
In that case, that's most of them wiped out.
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Old 28 May 2018, 08:37   #40
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And still while we're on the subject of Second Reality. While I'm not particularly fond of the demo itself, I do respect the fact that it was a milestone in the PC-scene back in the days, as it really set the bar higher in respects of music and overall flow. Something Future Crew already did previously with the demo Panic (which is my favourite of their demos).

But that doesn't make it significant to the Amiga in any way, as it's fairly obvious that it's still heavily inspired by Amiga demos from that time. Isn't it enough that Amiga-demos started copying PC-demos in the mid/late-90's, do we really want to look like we're admitting defeat and make a lesser version of the demo on the Amiga?

Also one thing that's been puzzling me for quite some time is the weird inferiority complex prevalent in the Amiga-scene today, where people are just begging for games to be ported over to the Amiga? As a developer it feels really weird, as at least I would rather make something of my own, where I could also do whatever I wish with my product. And with this in mind, asking for DEMOS to be ported over just feels even more backwards.
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