Wheelspin (AGA)

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 11:58

Quickstart A1200 makes the game have corrupt gfx with the skidmarks on the road..

This is with any version of winuae up to the latest most recent beta does the same thing...

One simple change in cpu from 60820 to 60830 seems to fix the gfx issue.

I am not sure if this is a emulator issue or with the game itself?

DamienD · 23 October 2020, 12:29

The config in my collection works fine for this game.

You need to untick all "Cycle-exact" options

No need to change CPU type.

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 12:50

Winuae & Mister fpga both have the same result. Does this mean the game won't work on a real 1200 seeing you have to untick cycle exact?

AMIGASYSTEM · 23 October 2020, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

Quickstart A1200 makes the game have corrupt gfx with the skidmarks on the road..

I tested Wheelspin AGA with Quikstart A1200 "standard" and I don't see anything strange in the graphics.

I also tried to disable "Cycle-exact" and everything seems to be perfect

Used WinUAE 4.5.0 b6 and Win7 32Bit

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 13:21

That's weird, myself and another member of eab see the issues with this game on a quickstart a1200..

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 13:24

DamienD · 23 October 2020, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

I had that issue many years back; hence why with each new beta / stable version of WinUAE I test this game, along with 28 others...

I've given you the solution

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

I had that issue many years back; hence why with each new beta / stable version of WinUAE I test this game, along with 28 others...

I've given you the solution

I appreciate the solution, at the same time id like to know what causes this issue?

Is this game not compatible with a real a1200 or is it an issue with the emulator... Which is why cpu modification is needed?

DamienD · 23 October 2020, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

Is this game not compatible with a real a1200 or is it an issue with the emulator... Which is why cpu modification is needed?

Again, no CPU modification is required.

As for emulator or game; I don't know.

I can give you another 5 x AGA or so games that required slight adjustments to options in order to work without glitches.

hexaae · 23 October 2020, 14:23

What I've learned so far about WinUAE emu is that timings between one version and another can slightly change and some adjustments may be required to make some specific games work flawlessly, even if they did with previous versions of WinUAE... And I've also learned this is unavoidable.

I always dreamed about an Amiga 1:1 software emu where you simply set "A1200 emu " and it will be exactly like a real A1200, but then I understood this is impossible and is much more complicated than a SNES or another console emulator.
I remember also floppy games on my real A1200 that didn't run if I didn't, for example, disable CPU caches at boot etc.

In brief, nothing strange to me: minimal timing changes in the emu can lead to problems with some Amiga games written using many (undocumented) hacks of the real hardware and bashing directly ASM to the metal

The important thing is that you can actually make them run fine, in the end

Foebane · 23 October 2020, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexaae

I always dreamed about an Amiga 1:1 software emu where you simply set "A1200 emu " and it will be exactly like a real A1200, but then I understood this is impossible

Why is it impossible? Software code written to behave exactly like an integrated circuit should be relatively easy, I always thought there were problems because the Amiga IC blueprints were lost, and it's not exactly easy to reverse-engineer an actual chip itself, but I figured if we had the technology to scan silicon chips and reproduce their function in software, then the whole issue of emulation would be solved.

hexaae · 23 October 2020, 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foebane

Why is it impossible? Software code written to behave exactly like an integrated circuit should be relatively easy, I always thought there were problems because the Amiga IC blueprints were lost, and it's not exactly easy to reverse-engineer an actual chip itself, but I figured if we had the technology to scan silicon chips and reproduce their function in software, then the whole issue of emulation would be solved.

As far as I know for this and other reasons it's very hard in the Amiga case...
Anyway some configs like Quickstarts indeed should emulate as close as possible original hw including all timings etc.

chip · 23 October 2020, 15:32

A bit off topic, but i always thinked that writing an emulator is really a difficult task

AMIGASYSTEM · 23 October 2020, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

I appreciate the solution, at the same time id like to know what causes this issue?

Is this game not compatible with a real a1200 or is it an issue with the emulator... Which is why cpu modification is needed?

Have you tried other game files, it may be a data corruption, can we try your ADF?

QuickStart A1200 Standard

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

Have you tried other game files, it may be a data corruption, can we try your ADF?

QuickStart A1200 Standard

I have an HDF and DamienDs adfs all fail in quickstart a1200

ransom1122 · 23 October 2020, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamienD

Again, no CPU modification is required.

As for emulator or game; I don't know.

I can give you another 5 x AGA or so games that required slight adjustments to options in order to work without glitches.

Cpu modification... I was referring to unticking cycle exact..

which is an alteration to the default a1200 setting.

DamienD · 23 October 2020, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

Cpu modification... I was referring to unticking cycle exact..

which is an alteration to the default a1200 setting.

I quote your post that I replied too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ransom1122

I appreciate the solution, at the same time id like to know what causes this issue?

Is this game not compatible with a real a1200 or is it an issue with the emulator... Which is why cpu modification is needed?

Toni Wilen · 24 October 2020, 15:10

Name of game only always equals not enough information.

Also: I'd have expected every regular member to already know that 68020 internal cycle usage IS NOT DOCUMENTED and is not available and because of this 68020 speed WILL change between version I have said it dozens of time already.

ma693541 · 24 October 2020, 16:49

Doesn't it also have something to say on real HW if you have KS 3.0 and one FD or KS 3.1 and one FD+HD?

Zarnal · 24 October 2020, 20:36

Check your configuration.

It's ok for me with Quickstart A1200 (3.0 and 3.1) and latest beta6 ( HD or not ).

23 October 2020, 11:58	#1
ransom1122 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Omnicorp Age: 45 Posts: 5,813	Wheelspin (AGA) Quickstart A1200 makes the game have corrupt gfx with the skidmarks on the road.. This is with any version of winuae up to the latest most recent beta does the same thing... One simple change in cpu from 60820 to 60830 seems to fix the gfx issue. I am not sure if this is a emulator issue or with the game itself?

23 October 2020, 14:23	#10
hexaae Bug hunter Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Italy Age: 48 Posts: 2,161	What I've learned so far about WinUAE emu is that timings between one version and another can slightly change and some adjustments may be required to make some specific games work flawlessly, even if they did with previous versions of WinUAE... And I've also learned this is unavoidable. I always dreamed about an Amiga 1:1 software emu where you simply set "A1200 emu " and it will be exactly like a real A1200, but then I understood this is impossible and is much more complicated than a SNES or another console emulator. I remember also floppy games on my real A1200 that didn't run if I didn't, for example, disable CPU caches at boot etc. In brief, nothing strange to me: minimal timing changes in the emu can lead to problems with some Amiga games written using many (undocumented) hacks of the real hardware and bashing directly ASM to the metal The important thing is that you can actually make them run fine, in the end Last edited by hexaae; 23 October 2020 at 14:32.

24 October 2020, 20:36	#20
Zarnal Registered User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: France Posts: 504	Check your configuration. It's ok for me with Quickstart A1200 (3.0 and 3.1) and latest beta6 ( HD or not ). Last edited by Zarnal; 17 May 2021 at 19:12.

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23 October 2020, 12:29	#2
DamienD Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London / Sydney Age: 47 Posts: 20,420	The config in my collection works fine for this game. You need to untick all "Cycle-exact" options No need to change CPU type.

23 October 2020, 12:50	#3
ransom1122 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Omnicorp Age: 45 Posts: 5,813	Winuae & Mister fpga both have the same result. Does this mean the game won't work on a real 1200 seeing you have to untick cycle exact?

23 October 2020, 13:21	#5
ransom1122 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Omnicorp Age: 45 Posts: 5,813	That's weird, myself and another member of eab see the issues with this game on a quickstart a1200..

23 October 2020, 13:24	#6
ransom1122 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Omnicorp Age: 45 Posts: 5,813

23 October 2020, 15:32	#13
chip Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Italy Age: 49 Posts: 2,942	A bit off topic, but i always thinked that writing an emulator is really a difficult task

24 October 2020, 15:10	#18
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,505	Name of game only always equals not enough information. Also: I'd have expected every regular member to already know that 68020 internal cycle usage IS NOT DOCUMENTED and is not available and because of this 68020 speed WILL change between version I have said it dozens of time already.

24 October 2020, 16:49	#19
ma693541 Computer Wizard Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ramberg/Norway Posts: 928	Doesn't it also have something to say on real HW if you have KS 3.0 and one FD or KS 3.1 and one FD+HD?

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