05 July 2015, 20:36 | #41 | |
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Photon's TV Tester may also be useful for your development work: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=914581&postcount=49 The thread might be of interest otherwise as well. |
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06 July 2015, 19:47 | #42 | |
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- wrong assumption about pixel clock and horizontal resolution (not 720 pixels, no 13.5MHz clock) - real 576i is only when LACE bit is active As such for best results probably 1280x720p mode must be used as output mode with smaller video embedded inside. Alternatively 1080p mode with pixel doubling can be (so efficiently 960x540p - Amiga window centered/cropped). For 1080 pixel doubler maybe one of "pixel art resizers" can be implemented in FPGA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_...ing_algorithms . For correct phase acquisition external system clock source is recommended. btw there is no such thing as 288p mode in Amiga - it can be 312p or 313p mode |
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06 July 2015, 21:14 | #43 | ||
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Quote:
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07 July 2015, 00:19 | #44 | |
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Via SCART/composite/RGB socket/RF (modulator), only 576i was possible. Sinclair Spectrum, QL, C64, Amiga 500, game consoles, VCRs, ... all have video exits @ 15 KHz 50Hz interlaced. Uhm, I see now that perhaps I didn't make myself clear: I'm not saying that the equipment above was "really" outputting a screen with 576 lines. What I'm saying is that the (lower) resolution was outputted in the form of a 576i (interlaced, always interlaced, never progressive) signal, so that it could be accepted by TVs, monitors (CM8833 class, not VGA 31 KHz of course), etc. |
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07 July 2015, 00:33 | #45 |
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Nope, still 240/288p. Hence the scanlines you can see due to half of the standard PAL/NTSC resolution. CRTs always supported progessive output.
http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/demystified.html Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 07 July 2015 at 00:48. |
07 July 2015, 10:00 | #46 | |
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Here are the most important phrases: All the classic videogame system (Mega Drive, SNES in standard mode, PC Engine, etc) as well as almost all 2D arcade games over the past two decades put out 15kHz RGB signals. A 15kHz signal (well, actually 15.75kHz, but nobody really cares) is called a 15khz signal because the cathode ray in your classic tube TV will cross the screen 15750 times horizontally per second. If you take a 60Hz refresh rate (standard for arcade games and NTSC videogame systems) you just divide 15750 by 60 you'll see that your TV is able to produce 262 lines per 1/60 second this way. (per 1/60 sec means "per pass"). Taking away some front porch & back porch, you'll get your 220 to 240 which most videogames and arcade game have as their vertical resolution. The horizontal resolution isn't really limited by the TVs horizontal scanrate, but most games systems are going for a 4:3 pixel ratio, so you end up with something like 320x240 pixels for classic arcade games. As you can imagine 320x240 pixels is a rather low resolution for a TV signal (or DVD if you like). This is why TV signals are transmitted interlaced. This means that first all odd lines are drawn across the screen and then all even lines are drawn. This means you'll get 480 lines onscreen (instead of 240), but you'll have to live with a little flicker since the two adjacent lines aren't drawn directly after each other, but only alternating (in other words you still only get 240 lines per 1/60 sec). This mode is called 15 kHz interlaced (640x480i). The above for NTSC signals. For PAL signals it's 576i (interlaced). |
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07 July 2015, 10:59 | #47 |
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a CRT is essentially a 50/60Hz progressive device with a vertical resolution somewhere in the ~260-290 lines range. interlace is achieved by the source signal delaying every other field by half a scanline, effectively causing it to display the lines in-between the lines of the previous/next field.
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07 July 2015, 11:28 | #48 | |
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This looks like a cool project, and we need to good converter between 288p@50Hz RGB and HDMI@50Hz for smooth motion. Perhaps 1920x1080 would be best suitable as 1080/4=270. With some scanline emulation, each input line could be made into two output lines and then two black lines (or light reduced lines), so to not require non-integer scaling. Last edited by demolition; 07 July 2015 at 11:35. |
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07 July 2015, 11:28 | #49 |
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Supamax what you just quoted proves nothing to do with what you're saying...
and it is FACT that Amiga outputs progressive (not interlaced) modes because i can SEE it with my EYES. If it were interlaced, it woud visibly flicker, even if even and odd frames were identical, as the image would still shake up and down by half a line. additionally, i know that the signals are different because when i switch to an interlaced mode on my LCD monitor, it throws a hissy fit and i have to turn it off and on again. |
07 July 2015, 11:47 | #50 |
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Supamax is still confused with TV broadcast, VHS/DVD video etc. First consoles that used a 480i/576i output regulary for games were Dreamcast and Playstation 2. Hopefully Staringlizard isn't get confused too now. Nice progess btw (second test clip).
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07 July 2015, 11:49 | #51 |
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Yes, you cannot broadcast an Amiga 288p signal without first converting it to interlaced (with quality loss).
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07 July 2015, 11:53 | #52 |
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07 July 2015, 12:04 | #53 | |
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The mode people are calling 240p or 288p is output by almost all video game systems from the 80s and early 90s, and involves either only odd fields, or only even fields. The sync patterns don't alternate each frame - hence no interlacing occurs. The same 240 / 288 scanlines are drawn each time, and the normally-interlaced scanlines are left blank - hence the black scanline emulation you find in certain emulators. So while the display timings are basically the same as 480i / 576i, these modes are not the same as an interlaced signal with successive 50Hz frames assigned to alternating interlaced fields. |
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07 July 2015, 14:48 | #54 |
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Getting more and more confused here
The only thing I can say for sure is that the AD9984A asic that I am using as ADC does not alternate its field bit (e.g. it is fixed at odd or even field all the time) when receiving data from Amiga unless Amiga is explicitly set for interlaced graphic mode. Then the field bit will alternate. This makes me believe that the output is indeed, normally, progressive from Amiga Video Connector. Regards, StaringL |
07 July 2015, 15:33 | #55 |
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Wow, this looks really awesome! Go for it
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07 July 2015, 21:41 | #56 | ||
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288p is functional description for default video mode but in real life even OCS can produce almost 'ANY' amount of lines video - this is even more challenging as based on pixel clock rest of video acquisition need to be done in a smart way. Only one thing is sure in Amiga - Sys clock and if you do video capture from Amiga you need to be perfectly in sync - best way to do this is provide own system clock. Quote:
Second TV's can accept various video - trust i made lot of experiments - you are limited in CRT only by V and H deflection circuits - digital TV's are different story as they need to be programmed with tight tolerance and as such they support only official mode (even if they circuitry can accommodate more modes than regular CRT even multisync). Nope - you can perfectly broadcast 288p from Amiga without converting it to interlace - A520 modulator is clear example - analog circuitry in TV (and most digital) can deal with this kind of signal. Last edited by pandy71; 07 July 2015 at 22:03. |
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07 July 2015, 23:08 | #57 |
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07 July 2015, 23:24 | #58 |
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07 July 2015, 23:27 | #59 |
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Maybe - some rare machines or special purpose may have also interlace - in theory MC6845 used as CRTC in CGA was capable to produce interlace video, probably other CRTC also (not sure on Intel 8275 as this was realy weird CRTC).
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07 July 2015, 23:34 | #60 | |
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interlace can also be seen on Sega Megadrive on Sonic 2 when the screen splits in 2 player race mode |
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