KS Copyright

[Eclipse]

Hi,
I'm brushing up a bit on the whole copyright thing and investigating how the latest incarnation of Amiga would have had to protect the KS ROM copyright.
Something really interesting has just turned up when checking the United States copyright office.
I've gone through the whole thing and looked everywhere and can find no reference to the 3.0 or 3.1 ROM's as being copyrighted.
LINK

[DDNI]

HI do a search for Amiga Operating system,

Amiga OS and Software revision 3.1 is found....

[Eclipse]

Hi,
That's interesting.
3.1 is not called Amiga OS which is what they have registered it as.
Also transfer of copyright has to have the express title of the work on all it's mediums. That would be Kickstart 3.1 No. XXXX (Like the old Commodore registered it like) and Workbench v XXXX.
For a copyright to hold you have to express it as a medium. They've goofed up and registered Amiga OS3.1.
If you look back at the copyrights transfered from Commodore you will see everything up to 2.05.
They've made the 3.1 copyright themselves.
I suspect it wasn't transfered and they did it anyway. Transfer has to be granted by writing by the original author.
Now that leaves KS 3.0. I don't see that either.

[Eclipse]

Just incase it turns out I'm right.
Amiga Inc. you can't register a copyright after the fact.
Employer for hire? No they certainly weren't.

[Zetr0]

hmmm wouldn't a lot of KS3.0 code be protected by IP by the KS2.05 and prior ?

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

hmmm wouldn't a lot of KS3.0 code be protected by IP by the KS2.05 and prior ?

They would still have to copyright it. Nothing is copyrighted until it's an actual medium. In this case it would be copyrighted as KS 3.0.
They could then refer to 2.05 as part of the copyright. It's like the same book with 2 different titles, you would copyright both. It's the title and work within that's copyrighted.
Besides transfer of copyright has to be registered, I find no trace of 3.0 and 3.1 looks dubious.
3.1 actually does not include any other titles anyway. Have a look here.

[Eclipse]

Sorry my bad for not explaining clearly.
CBM never released anything called OS3.0 or OS3.1.(Escom did).

[FromWithin]

Don't know where you're reading your copyright law, Mr. Eclipse, but you're very wrong. Nothing needs to be registered for copyright to be enforced. All Kickstart versions are copyrighted from their moment of inception.

In the U.K:
"Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibits a degree of labour, skill or judgement."

Not only is registration unnecessary, but there is nowhere in the U.K to register with regardless.

In the U.S:
"While copyright in the United States automatically attaches upon the creation of an original work of authorship, registration with the Copyright Office puts a copyright holder in a better position if litigation arises over the copyright. "

Registration is not necessary, and is purely for the paranoid to show proof of creation.

[Anubis]

So if original creator of KS didn't copyright kickstart, what proof can Amiga Inc. show that they created KS3.1 or own IP rights?

[FromWithin]

Originally Posted by Anubis

So if original creator of KS didn't copyright kickstart, what proof can Amiga Inc. show that they created KS3.1 or own IP rights?

You never need to actively copyright something. You automatically own the copyright on creation. The proof part is what court cases are always about. It would be easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Commodore created it based on the history of the company versus the history of any challenger that might come about, and there should be documentation of transfer of rights through to Amiga Inc.

[meega]

Try booting an Amiga and see what it says there...

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by FromWithin

Don't know where you're reading your copyright law, Mr. Eclipse, but you're very wrong. Nothing needs to be registered for copyright to be enforced. All Kickstart versions are copyrighted from their moment of inception.

In the U.K:
"Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibits a degree of labour, skill or judgement."

Not only is registration unnecessary, but there is nowhere in the U.K to register with regardless.

In the U.S:
"While copyright in the United States automatically attaches upon the creation of an original work of authorship, registration with the Copyright Office puts a copyright holder in a better position if litigation arises over the copyright. "

Registration is not necessary, and is purely for the paranoid to show proof of creation.

You do have to register it if you want to transfer the work.
When Commodore went bust, Escom would have had to register as the new copyright holder. It's the only circumstance in which you do need to register it.

From the US Copyright Office:

Transfer of Copyright

Any or all of the copyright owner’s exclusive rights or any subdivision of those rights may be transferred, but the transfer of exclusive rights is not valid unless that transfer is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner’s duly authorized agent. Transfer of a right on a nonexclusive basis does not require a written agreement.

3.0 is nowhere to be seen and 3.1OS wasn't registered until 2007. Somethings definately not right.
Do you guys not remember that Escom didn't actually want them? They only really wanted the Commodore name and the Patents that go with it. They wanted nothing really to do with the Amiga.

[Anubis]

And what's your point?

ps. Is anyone from Amiga Inc. reading this? That's of course if they've learned how to read.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Anubis

And what's your point?

ps. Is anyone from Amiga Inc. reading this? That's of course if they've learned how to read.

If the copyright wasn't transfered from Commodore in writing (or the chain was broken) then the current incarnation of Amiga don't own the copyright.

[Anubis]

Except for most needed 1.3 and 2.04.

But still, it would be nice to be able to let people use 3.X

[Zetr0]

truth is though... i can see it being taken to court...

People V's A(_._).STinc

".... so what evidence of the transference of copyright do mr McEwan ?...", said Judge Jones.

Bill pulls smalll crumped up paper from pocket...

"... see if you look carefully.. its says clearly here in crayola and in Fleecy's handwriting that the IP was signed for by CBM.... honest....."

yeah..... its a moot point arguable.... i am not even sure that A.Inc even really OWN them.... i reckon they license them... but from whom?????......

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

truth is though... i can see it being taken to court...

People V's A(_._).STinc

".... so what evidence of the transference of copyright do mr McEwan ?...", said Judge Jones.

Bill pulls smalll crumped up paper from pocket...

"... see if you look carefully.. its says clearly here in crayola and in Fleecy's handwriting that the IP was signed for by CBM.... honest....."

yeah..... its a moot point arguable.... i am not even sure that A.Inc even really OWN them.... i reckon they license them... but from whom?????......

You have a point that even if I were correct (no way am I saying I am BTW) it would be a pointless folly to prove.
Although.... I used to play city of heroes and was around when Marvel tried to sue them for copyright infringement.
You would be amazed at some of the lengths companies go to to try and claim copyright. The marvel vs Cryptic case is widely reported on the net if you need to take a look.
It transpired that Marvel created the offending copyrights in the game themselves!!
More interestingly some of the so called copyrights they didn't have rights to at all, a lot had not been transferred correctly and some were even public domain. There is a very long thread on the COH website about it.

[Siggy999]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

You do have to register it if you want to transfer the work.
When Commodore went bust, Escom would have had to register as the new copyright holder. It's the only circumstance in which you do need to register it.

3.0 is nowhere to be seen and 3.1OS wasn't registered until 2007. Somethings definately not right.
Do you guys not remember that Escom didn't actually want them? They only really wanted the Commodore name and the Patents that go with it. They wanted nothing really to do with the Amiga.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't say you need to register it - it says that for it to be exclusively transferred it must be in writing.

(from the actual site on US copyright - www.copyright.gov)

§ 204. Execution of transfers of copyright ownership

(a) A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent.

(b) A certificate of acknowledgment is not required for the validity of a transfer, but is prima facie evidence of the execution of the transfer if —

(1) in the case of a transfer executed in the United States, the certificate is issued by a person authorized to administer oaths within the United States; or

(2) in the case of a transfer executed in a foreign country, the certificate is issued by a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States, or by a person authorized to administer oaths whose authority is proved by a certificate of such an officer.

Now in the section just below that it goes on about recordance of the transfer of copyright.. you'll notice how it says this too is optional.

§ 205. Recordation of transfers and other documents4

(a) Conditions for Recordation. — Any transfer of copyright ownership or other document pertaining to a copyright may be recorded in the Copyright Office if the document filed for recordation bears the actual signature of the person who executed it, or if it is accompanied by a sworn or official certification that it is a true copy of the original, signed document.

So although they may not have opted to record this - for whatever reason (we are talking about a company claim to have lost the technical info on the AGA chipset.... ) all they need is a signed document saying that they own exclusive rights to it - which will be in the dead tree of documents they signed when they bought the company (basically what they bought) - all they'd need to do is produce this document... (then again.. AGA....... )

[Zetr0]

@Siggy99

Hello there,

Welcome to the EAB, theres plenty of mischief to get up to around here, so kick back and make yourself comfy and enjoy the honey coated retr0-ness that this fair board provides...

although in retrospect, as much as i could wish that KS 3.x was free from AI's tyranny this is not so...

but i can dream, and i can wish... and I would absolutely die laughing if they lost the bit of paper, (and were not clever enough to knock up a new one lol)

[alexh]

Remember that KS3.1 is post Commodore.

It was published by VillageTronic