Amiga Options

[MigaTech]

Actual Amiga items are a good investment because they can only appreciate in value, regardless of what they attempt to replace it with.

Customised Amiga items are always expensive due to the work involved in both development and build. Not to mention the unique value!

The main reason the USA prices are high is because Amiga wasn't as big in the US, if at all. So lack of machines makes them even rarer than they already are. Also PAL Amiga's have more titles than NTSC versions. < This yet another reason why PAL Amiga computers are coveted.

eBay prices have been creeping up and up, even the Amiga 500's are slowly getting to an average £100 per system.

I am very passionate and could never accept emulation < If you are not going to do the job proper, then don't do it at all !

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by MigaTech

Actual Amiga items are a good investment because they can only appreciate in value, regardless of what they attempt to replace it with.

this is the classic lie collectors tell to themselves (and wives ).

Believe me buddy, it's not gonna happen, especially with a product produced in such high volume. All this junk we have, will forever be junk.

Sure, prices have been going up. But that doesn't mean they'll stay up there.

Also, change "amiga" for anything else like another retro computer, synthesizers, your McDonald's Happy Meal figures...

The main reason the USA prices are high is because Amiga wasn't as big in the US, if at all.

That's not true at all, and without actual knowledge of the US market (ie living here), best not try to pass opinion as fact.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by MigaTech

I am very passionate and could never accept emulation < If you are not going to do the job proper, then don't do it at all !

...well, that's good for you

I haven't touched "real" Amiga hardware in 20+ years and don't miss it one bit... plus, I haven't had to invest oodles of money or to make the required space to actually set up the equipment...

Since every single project I've ever undertook / completed has been done via WinUAE (and I'm sure a lot of other people use emulators to bring stuff for the benefit of the Amiga community); should I now remove my contribution from the EAB File Server then as it wasn't done on a "real" Amiga???

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by DamienD

should I now remove my contribution from the EAB File Server then as it wasn't done on a "real" Amiga???

No, you should just ignore zealots like Migatech

[TrashyMG]

Originally Posted by Akira

This is off-topic, this thread is about recommendations for systems, not about what Apollo Team wants to achieve. Don't start.

ajk was talking to the OP and asked HIM what HE wanted to do with the setup, which is an excellent question.

I don't think I was entirely off topic, I was explaining where the Apollo core project differs from the other solutions. I did say several times if people just want fast Amiga things then have at with Emulation.

[gururise]

At minimum I'm looking for the following:

• High Compatability with WHDLoad Games & Amiga Software
• AGA Graphics
• Speed at least equivalent to Amiga 3000
• Networking
• Able to run OS3.9
• At least 24MB for productivity apps

Nice to have would be:

• Speed equivlent or faster than 50Mhz 68060
• HDMI output w/scandoubler
• High Resolution Gfx (1024x768+)
• Able to use Amiga Keyboard/Mice
• 256MB+ for running Netsurf Browser

An accelerated A1200 or A4000 would meet most of the above criteria, but would cost around $600-800 (for the A1200+accel) here in the states and even more for the A4000, so is really not an option.

The machine will be used for gaming (mostly from Workbench via WHDLoad) and running older Amiga productivity apps (Pagestream, FinalWriter, BlitzBasic, etc).

[ajk]

Alright, so aiming for relatively high end specs. If pure emulation is out of the question then I'd probably go with a Raspberry Pi, at least as a first step. It will run the majority of those things fine, and if the limitations ever become a problem and you do want to move on to something else, you have very little money invested in the system.

[Amiga1992]

You are being a bit contradicting. You list these super high specs, then say that the machine will be just going to be used for games and old programs, for which you do not need such high specs.

Makes absolutely no sense. Not really sure what you want to achieve here.

[MigaTech]

Originally Posted by Akira

That's not true at all, and without actual knowledge of the US market (ie living here), best not try to pass opinion as fact.

I wasn't, I have friends in the USA who have told me this is one of the main reasons!

Originally Posted by DamienD

Since every single project I've ever undertook / completed has been done via WinUAE (and I'm sure a lot of other people use emulators to bring stuff for the benefit of the Amiga community); should I now remove my contribution from the EAB File Server then as it wasn't done on a "real" Amiga???

My opinion wasn't placed to insult you. It was only to show what I believe to be true, as far as my opinion is concerned, nothing more. So if I offended you, then I am sorry.

Originally Posted by Akira

No, you should just ignore zealots like Migatech

I am beginning to think that you do not like the fact, I am most ardent towards Amiga ?

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by MigaTech

My opinion wasn't placed to insult you. It was only to show what I believe to be true, as far as my opinion is concerned, nothing more. So if I offended you, then I am sorry.

It's not about insulting me; really couldn't care less if you try...

Being a Global Moderator, I get shite from people all the time (on the forum in public view and also behind the scenes via PMs), so need to have a thick skin

The point was that you say emulation is rubbish; sooooo not true.

...maybe it was 10+ years ago but Master Wilen has worked tirelessly day / night, 24 / 7, year after year and now it's rock solid

Tell me, when is the last time you tried WinUAE???

Like I said in my post; you guys go ahead and spend oodles of cash on real hardware if you like; all cool.

For me WinUAE is all I need; every single Amiga model in one

[MigaTech]

Originally Posted by DamienD

The point was that you say emulation is rubbish; sooooo not true.

Perhaps the Useable Amiga Emulator has improved since 2000. Yet only a few years earlier it was once stated that PC's from that time, were still struggling to replicate what the original 1985 Amiga computer was capable off.

OK so tech moved on and Amiga didn't and nowadays emulation is almost perfect. Yet no matter how real a simulation, it shall always remain a simulation.

Virtual reality will never replace reality. So for actual experience, emulation loses to the real deal. Yet for your purpose of use, then emulation wins every time. < Meaning that instead of having a room full of computers, it's all in one.

Originally Posted by DamienD

...maybe it was 10+ years ago but Master Wilen has worked tirelessly day / night, 24 / 7, year after year and now it's rock solid

I can only admire this persons passion to keep up the hard work and effort, to bring the legend Amiga to emulation.

Originally Posted by DamienD

Tell me, when is the last time you tried WinUAE???

2010 and I felt the FDD drive sound was terrible, coupled with the unstable graphics and the game play was way too fast. < Bit like how PAL games run on NTSC Amiga's. just awful. Although the OS environment wasn't too bad.

Originally Posted by DamienD

Like I said in my post; you guys go ahead and spend oodles of cash on real hardware if you like; all cool.

The Amiga as a whole shall never lose its value, it shall continue to be coveted and NOT junk, as Akira so meaningfully asserted. Customised Amiga project work in the retro field is worth a fortune, Because of its rareness and unique quality. Not to mention how much effort goes into making it all possible.

People who chose to spend large amounts of cash on original Amiga hardware whether original or customised, do so because they believe in the true experience and ownership.

Originally Posted by DamienD

For me WinUAE is all I need; every single Amiga model in one

Again very true and perfect for you. Perhaps I cannot offer a parallel you can accept here. So I shall just state that Emulation is perfect for some but not for all. < The same can be said for the real Amiga.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Originally Posted by DamienD

No need to puchase anything; just use WinUAE

I am with you with regards to emulation: it is by far the cheapest way to introduce friends to the Amiga scene, which incidentally was the purpose of this post.

Buy AmigaForever, install WinUAE or FS-UAE, setup Hannibal's SDK and you can code straight from your PC in a matter of hours and moreover fully legally so.

[AdvanceFollow]

Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat

I am with you with regards to emulation: it is by far the cheapest way to introduce friends to the Amiga scene, which incidentally was the purpose of this post.

Buy AmigaForever, install WinUAE or FS-UAE, setup Hannibal's SDK and you can code straight from your PC in a matter of hours and moreover fully legally so.

I'd agree. Emulation is not for the purist, but as an introduction to classic Amiga, it's perfect. I can set up multiple different configurations, anything from the ultra-modern AmiKit X running in full HD, 32-bit color, to an unexpanded A500. It even runs AmigaOS 4.1 Classic reasonably well. Setting up networking, RTG etc. is super-easy.

With WinUAE, my desktop PC (Ryzen 1800X CPU) can emulate an imaginary Amiga hundreds of times faster than an A4000. Literally off the charts in programs like SysInfo. If anything, having access to such ludicrous speed is a detriment sometimes, since it doesn't "feel" like a classic Amiga. Of course, cycle-exact emulation is also possible, but it's tempting to turn the speed up to 11.

The drawbacks are mostly "psychological", in that you're just running an application in Windows (or Linux). It's easy to get distracted and Alt+Tab to your Windows applications. A Raspberry Pi running something like Amibian or Amiberry solves this problem since it boots straight into AmigaOS. However keep in mind that UAE4ARM isn't as complete or compatible as WinUAE/FS-UAE. Version 0.4 is the most stable, while version 0.5 has some more features but is a bit buggy. Unfortunately, development seems to be very slow. I was unfortunately not impressed with the quality of the emulation on my RPi3 and re purposed mine into a home server running DietPi instead.

There are lots of interesting FPGA boards available or in development, but they all seem to be DIY to some extent, requiring you to build your own case, solder connectors and daughterboards etc. The MIST looks interesting, since it's packaged product, ready to run. It's not as fast as emulators or even an expanded real Amiga however. Also is seems to suffer from the same lack of development as UAE4ARM, since there are so few FPGA programmers and they all generously do it in their spare time.

[E-Penguin]

WinUAE is almost essential when setting up an original machine nowadays. Configure it as the target machine (including all manner of weird and wonderful accessories), set up the SD card then pop it into the Amiga. It'd be damned painful having to do that with floppy disks or via serial cable.

In other words, emulation complements the original hardware, there's no need to consider them as separate worlds.

[Amiga1992]

WinUAE is not only for "having an Amiga i you cannot have a real one", as E-Penguin says, to me it's a NECESSARY TOOL to accompany my hardware Amiga.

I don't think I'd be messing about as much as I do with my Amiga if it wasn't for WinUAE letting me test and do crazy stuff quickly before I commit to putting it all on the "real thing". And because it's so close to 1:1, I can expect it to behave in the same way and run into the same issues I would on my hardware.

Also emulation quality is spot on. Anyone saying otherwise is delusional.
WinUAE has not struggled pushing framerate for like a decade. And as usual, the "upgrade your shitty computer" dogma applies. If you are trying to run it in a dog, don't be surprised it sucks.

Latest WinUAE runs just fine on my 8 years old Atom N280 machine @ 1Ghz!!! My modern PC just has no trouble with it whatsoever.

[Signman]

I have fun with all of them, my Pi setup is really quite nice.
As far as Tinkerboard, I bought one but nothing so far as Amiga emulation on it has come out yet.

If you want high specs with little money then emulation. A 1200 can be had cheaper than you proposed.

[gururise]

Can one print from UAE? I want to be able to print the work being done on FinalWriter and Pagestream to a modern laser printer.

[gururise]

Originally Posted by Akira

You are being a bit contradicting. You list these super high specs, then say that the machine will be just going to be used for games and old programs, for which you do not need such high specs.

Makes absolutely no sense. Not really sure what you want to achieve here.

Well, ideally, the Amiga would be used as a 'desktop replacement' for a modern computer. Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but having a high spec Amiga with enough memory, you can do all the basic tasks: Gaming, Word Processing, Desktop Publishing, Programming and Web Browsing.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by gururise

Well, ideally, the Amiga would be used as a 'desktop replacement' for a modern computer.

Instead of giving a present to a friend sounds to me like you are trying to torture them.

[nobody]

Originally Posted by gururise

Well, ideally, the Amiga would be used as a 'desktop replacement' for a modern computer. Yes, I know it sounds crazy, but having a high spec Amiga with enough memory, you can do all the basic tasks: Gaming, Word Processing, Desktop Publishing, Programming and Web Browsing.

Only if you have an updated OS and then emulated only. Then get a series of programs like firefox, irfanview, gimp, winamp, vlc, Word and more for that OS.
It could have some market share for old computers due to being lightweight but unfortunately Linux already got that market with lubuntu, Mint xfce, etc. And it's doing it for free.