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Old 06 June 2009, 22:39   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantum112 View Post
The cable I'm currently using has both a 9 pin and a 25 pin end on both sides, so I don't need to use an adapter. The USB-Serial adapter is originally a 9-pin male connector, but it comes with an adapter that converts it to a 25-pin male, which I don't need to use because I can simply connect the 9-pin female end of the Belkin cable to the Serial-USB adapter.

My connection looks basically like this:

AMIGA:<25F>-<9F>Serial-USB Port

(nothing):<9F>-25F>(nothing)
If you think that the only remaining problem you have is at the Amiga end because of the deep insertion requirement of the cable's 25-way connector, you still have the option of using a 9-way to 25-way adapter connected to the 9-way cable socket to make the connection to the Amiga to see if this performs better.

This would give you the chance to experiment by bending the pins slightly before inserting the plug into the cable end, as you wouldn't then be bending the pins in your Amiga's serial port connector.
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Old 06 June 2009, 22:45   #42
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Well it MIGHT be because of the pins not reaching, but also it could be due to what I mentioned, from what I understand DTR/DSR is a method of hardware control like RTS/CTS. That serial loopback tutorial said that to properly test the loopback function you need to have both of these sets of 2 pins connected. If I only use RTS/CTS, the loopback works with both of my serial-usb adapters and with the Belkin cable as well. However, if I short the DTR/DSR as well, then the entire PC freezes or no message comes through. Obviously, when connected with the amiga all pins are connected.
Is this supposed to happen?
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Old 06 June 2009, 23:03   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantum112 View Post
Well it MIGHT be because of the pins not reaching, but also it could be due to what I mentioned, from what I understand DTR/DSR is a method of hardware control like RTS/CTS. That serial loopback tutorial said that to properly test the loopback function you need to have both of these sets of 2 pins connected. If I only use RTS/CTS, the loopback works with both of my serial-usb adapters and with the Belkin cable as well. However, if I short the DTR/DSR as well, then the entire PC freezes or no message comes through. Obviously, when connected with the amiga all pins are connected.
Is this supposed to happen?
The connections for typical loopback serial port testing are as follows:

9-way connector:

Pin 1 to Pin 4, Pin 6 and Pin 9
Pin 2 to Pin 3
Pin 7 to Pin 8

25-way connector:

Pin 2 to Pin 3
Pin 4 to Pin 5
Pin 6 to Pin 8, Pin 20 and Pin 22

All these connections are required, and, of course, both RTS/CTS and DTR/DSR sets are required for Amiga Explorer to work.

PS. I have no experience of actually carrying out loopback testing. I just got these connections from a PC troubleshooting handbook.

Last edited by prowler; 06 June 2009 at 23:21.
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Old 06 June 2009, 23:43   #44
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Well I can't get the DSR/DTR set to work. It either locks up my PC or displays no return message. I am only connecting pin 4 to 6 though(+ 2-3 for RX/TX, and 7-8 for RTS/CTS), the rest is not needed, so I've read everywhere.
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Old 06 June 2009, 23:55   #45
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The connections required for loopback testing vary from program to program, and companies that produce diagnostics software can often supply matching loopback connectors. Details of the required interconnections should also be given in the manual for the program and/or on the software manufacturer's website.

The loopback connections given above work with the popular Checkit program and some others.

(Extract from the same PC troubleshooting handbook.)
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Old 07 June 2009, 00:22   #46
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FFS . When I read of people just hooking this stuff up and having it running on the first try, I really wanna bang my head on the wall. There's two more things I'm gonna try, getting an adapter on the Amiga side as you suggested, although I doubt it's gonna help because most of these things are the same dimensions (I'll attribute this to cr**py Belkin cable design) or try that PC <> Amiga transfer cable from Amigakit.com which is supposed to be "ideal for transferring from the PC to the Amiga. If that one doesn't work, I'm gonna take and it mail it right back to their ideal ***, straight to Britain.
Sorry, I've had enough for today, I'm off to bed. Good night all, and thanks for the help.
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Old 07 June 2009, 20:26   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer View Post
Using serial transfers on A500/600/unexpanded A2000 is a real pain on the * .

After setting up correctly Amiga Explorer, save the program on a disk and use it in all your Amigas, remember to use another serial replacement instead the real crappy built-in serial device of Amiga.

I use baud bandit on 68000 machines (A500/600) and new8n1 on 020+ ones.
Hey rkauer,

Please tell me more? ...
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Old 07 June 2009, 20:26   #48
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Can anyone spot anything wrong with the serial pins?
The one marked looks like it has a slight bit less solder than the others, it doesn't move anywhere though...

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Old 07 June 2009, 20:31   #49
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Hi quantum112,

That's the earthed pin.

You could test its connection to the earth plane of the motherboard if its appearance is worrying you.

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Old 07 June 2009, 20:32   #50
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Hmm, everything else looks fine to me. Well if the serial port gave a **BREAK** before, then I guess it couldn't have broken in a week of non-use by itself.
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Old 07 June 2009, 21:20   #51
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Hey, I have an idea, what about those Bluetooth serial adapters? Would they work? Or is it possible even for them to be *incompatible* in some way? For example get a 25-pin Bluetooth USB adapter for the Amiga, and a USB Bluetooth adapter for the PC? Would that work? Would I need to install any drivers Amiga-side or would it work out of the box? Way simpler than this cable business, or so it seems.
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Old 07 June 2009, 21:21   #52
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It doesn't usually cause a problem as the main contact is on the other side. I wonder if the joint is just loose, how good are you with a soldering iron?
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Old 07 June 2009, 21:24   #53
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I'm pretty good, with the proper tools, but not with this cheapo 80W soldering iron with the king-size tip and a 1,5 mm thick soldering wire
I've tried poking at that pin with a screwdriver, nothing seems to move.
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Old 07 June 2009, 22:28   #54
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OK, after looking at these Bluetooth-Serial adapters I'm worried about a few things;

1. First of all they seem to need 5V power from an adapter. If the Amiga feeds 12V on pin 9 that's going to fry them pretty quick. How would I go about making it only get power from the adapter? I'm thinking maybe get a 9-25 Pin converter and desolder the power pin from it and use it that way?

2. All of the data-sheets I've read seem to indicate that these USB-Serial adapters have their DTR/DSR pins "NC" - Not connected... if they don't have them connected, and Amiga Explorer needs them, isn't this going to cause problems?

3. What is the difference between DCE/DTE adapters and which one should I get for the PC and which one for the Amiga?
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Old 08 June 2009, 19:11   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer View Post
After setting up correctly Amiga Explorer, save the program on a disk and use it in all your Amigas, remember to use another serial replacement instead the real crappy built-in serial device of Amiga.

I use baud bandit on 68000 machines (A500/600) and new8n1 on 020+ ones.
I have been Googling to find out more about this and see what can be done to speed up Amiga Explorer.

The key to this is to find a replacement for the Amiga's serial.device, and three are available.

Reportedly, the most reliable of these is BaudBandit, followed by ArtSer and finally New8n1.

BaudBandit v1.4b is available on Aminet here:
http://aminet.net/package/comm/misc/baudbandit1.4b

ArtSer v37.6 is available here:
http://ftp.uni-heidelberg.de/ftp/pub...ArtSer37_6.lha

and New8n1 v43.5 is also available on Aminet here:
http://aminet.net/package/comm/misc/New8n1

Now to go and have some fun!

@quantum112:

Have a look at ADF Sender Terminal v1.5r4 here:
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/
It uses TransWarp v1.4.3 to get baud rates up to 115,200 from Amiga to PC via a null modem cable, and uses only RTS/CTS protocol.

Alternatively, as you suggested earlier, you could fit a PCI-slot serial port card to your PC.

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Old 08 June 2009, 19:27   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
@quantum112:

Have a look at ADF Sender Terminal v1.5r4 here:
http://adfsender.stoeggl.com/
It uses TransWarp v1.4.3 to get baud rates up to 115,200 from Amiga to PC via a null modem cable, and uses only RTS/CTS protocol.

Alternatively, as you suggested earlier, you could fit a PCI-slot serial port card to your PC.

prowler
I have already used this program, It sends the first file OK. Then I CTRL-C on the Amiga to **BREAK**, send another file to complete the break, press CANCEL, PC freezes. Regardless of handshaking type, RTS, Xon, Xon/CTS, NO handshaking, it still freezes after break.

Oh by the way, a family member that I sent to buy me this cable before I bought the first one, bought TWO more of the EXACT same Belkin cables that I used first, I have tested both of the new ones today, NONE of them work...that eliminates the possibility of mine being wired incorrectly. They do NOT work. Belkin F3X171-10, watch out people, these cables are junk and they do not work...at all.

Last edited by quantum112; 08 June 2009 at 19:33.
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Old 08 June 2009, 19:37   #57
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I would seriously consider adding a PCI-slot serial port card to you PC. It would really be a lot simpler than trying to troubleshoot Bluetooth-Serial adapters, IMHO.

Edit: And resurrect the first cable you had, checking that its wiring matches the AF specifications.

Last edited by prowler; 08 June 2009 at 20:07.
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Old 08 June 2009, 20:19   #58
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Well, I'm going to order a PCI-Serial card, but that's the last thing I'm doing before I get a pair of Bluetooth devices, honestly. The only thing left that I have from the old cable are the two 25 pin ends and the cabling which is detached completely mind you. There are solder marks still on the pins so I can see which ones were soldered though I have made a few but those are easily distinguishable by being oversized and imprecise.

So looking at it I can tell you that the cable had these pins wired:

Pin 1, Pin 2, Pin 3, Pin 4, Pin 5, Pin 7, Pin 8
Pin 15, Pin 17, Pin 20, Pin 24

That's a really weird pinout but that's how it is. I can't tell what was connected to what because like I said wires are gone.
The cable did succesfully give **BREAK** message, but gave "Error reading COM port."

I have a feeling this USB serial adapter is not wiring DTR/DSR and possibly not even CD.
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Old 08 June 2009, 20:24   #59
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Don't worry about how your original cable was wired, just use the two 25-way female ends to construct your own cable which conforms exactly to the requirements for a null modem cable given on the Amiga Forever website.

And you're probably right about the USB-Serial adaptor.
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Old 08 June 2009, 20:28   #60
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I've got a soldering iron that's not nearly precise enough for a job as finicky as this. Bet you a beer it's the USB adapter, I'll be damned if that thing emulates DTR/DSR or CD, that's probably why the first cable "worked", it didn't have some of those pinouts, and I'd be willing to bet these Belkin cables are wired properly, hell I've tested them and they conform to those specs on the website perfectly, but the USB adapter is probably not wiring some of those flow control pins at all, and it wasn't cheap either. But as soon as you see a brand called "Value " on it, it's clear what this is, generic cheap chinese stuff. I'm going to get that Serial Card in a day or two and I'm willing to bet all 3 of the cables work flawlessly with it.

If only I could find some proper DTR/DSR/CD testing software I'd probably figure it out right now, only that it's kinda hard to short male pins.
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