1992 386DX Beating Amiga?

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

There is no reason to use ancient technology like bitplanes after 1992.

That's simply not true. The AGA machines already sold very poorly. Imagine if there was absolutely no compatibility with previous Amiga models?

[swinkamor12]

I have Amiga 1200. Most annoying thing in it was AGA, AGA was too slow and not enough compatible with OCS/ECS.
In my opinion Amiga 1200 should have ECS AND new graphics hardware for never resolutions.
AGA was waste time and money.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

I have Amiga 1200. Most annoying thing in it was AGA, AGA was too slow and not enough compatible with OCS/ECS.
In my opinion Amiga 1200 should have ECS AND new graphics hardware for never resolutions.
AGA was waste time and money.

It's a good job your opinion doesn't actually count for anything.

There's quite a few reasons to have ~8 bit planes over byte-per-pixel graphics, thankfully (for me) I'd rather explain them to someone who isn't a fully paid up idiot like your good self.

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

It's a good job your opinion doesn't actually count for anything.

There's quite a few reasons to have ~8 bit planes over byte-per-pixel graphics, thankfully (for me) I'd rather explain them to someone who isn't a fully paid up idiot like your good self.

I'm writing a BASIC interpreter on the PC. Using 256 colours (1bpp) for the display. There are so many effects that I would like to do that require toggling of bits in the display - transparencies, shadowing, glenz shading etc which all take way more instructions than they should where the Amiga would have taken the whole lot in its stride.

[swinkamor12]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

There's quite a few reasons to have ~8 bit planes over byte-per-pixel graphics

Your pills stop working.
You have to visit Your doctor, to change to better one.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

Your pills stop working.
You have to visit Your doctor, to change to better one.

I wouldn't mind a batch of some of the pills you're on sunshine.

[AmigaHope]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

Bitplanes was great in the eighties when RAM was very expensive.
Bitplanes gives OCS/ECS advantage over graphics of IBM/Apple/Atari, by using non standard bpp like 6 bpp.
Bitplanes gives nothing when 256 or more colors are used, and only slow down graphics.
There is no reason to use ancient technology like bitplanes after 1992.

Modern games don't render in chunky integer pixels now, they render in floating point, so there still has to be a framebuffer conversion at the end.

Bitplanes are fairly pointless now though, it's true.

But what I was trying to convey is that the big problem with the Amiga line in the early 90's was its slow CPU, slow RAM, and the lack of evolution in any other coprocessor to compensate for that. Adding chunky pixels would not have fixed the problem, it would have just made Wolf3D playable on an A1200, Doom would still have killed it. Like I said, a Graffiti will effectively give you a chunky mode in AGA and lets you see what it would have been like if AGA had come with one to begin with.

(A lot of people point to copper chunky, the one native chunky mode hack you could do with AGA, but the reason it made games run okay was mostly because it forced the engines to render to a ridiculously low resolution.)

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

Your pills stop working.
You have to visit Your doctor, to change to better one.

If you disagree with mcgeezer you can bring forth some arguments or simply state that you disagree.

That pill/doctor part looks too much like a personal attack. So next time avoid posting some stuff like this.

[swinkamor12]

There are many ways to solve problems with biggest flaw in AGA that was wrong pixel format.
It may be custom graphics card with proper pixel format or graffiti or 040/060 used for c2p.
I prefer to use better graphics because graffiti and 040/060 were expensive back in the nineties and I will not use them back in the nineties, they are anachronistic.
a1200 has many flaws but lack of chunky pixel was main reason why Commodore bankrupt.
Nobody knows if hombre will be a succes or not, so nobody knows will Commodore bankrupt or not if they have two more years.

[swinkamor12]

There was nothing to discuss with mcgeezer.
Bitplanes has no advantages in 256 colors and mcgeezer know it very well, as rest of community, it is common knowledge.
mcgeezer comment was pure trolling and personal attack.
you lilalurl as a moderator should react on comment like mcgeezer.
My answer was nice and funny way to tell "stop trolling".

[redblade]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

a1200 has many flaws but lack of chunky pixel was main reason why Commodore bankrupt.

I would argue that it was lack of software that helped Commodore go bankrupt. If Day of the Tentacle, Sam and Max, all the Sega CD games and many other software at the time were released for Amiga, it would of helped sell more units. Mortal Kombat AGA and Mortal Kombat II AGA would of been great to play.

Also if software like Alien Breed 3D, Gloom, Photogenics was also available in 92 instead of in 95 it could have helped sell more units. Alien Vs Predator on the Jaguar isn't that great either as it has a wolf 3d type engine, but it helped sell a lot of units and the game has great atmosphere.

Well that's my opinion.

Also the Atari Falcon had chunky pixels, Amiga owners might salivate at those type of specs in a wedge amiga, minus the 16bit address bus to the 68030.

[AmigaHope]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

There are many ways to solve problems with biggest flaw in AGA that was wrong pixel format.
It may be custom graphics card with proper pixel format or graffiti or 040/060 used for c2p.
I prefer to use better graphics because graffiti and 040/060 were expensive back in the nineties and I will not use them back in the nineties, they are anachronistic.
a1200 has many flaws but lack of chunky pixel was main reason why Commodore bankrupt.
Nobody knows if hombre will be a succes or not, so nobody knows will Commodore bankrupt or not if they have two more years.

See, what I'm saying is that even if AGA had a chunky mode, it would not have saved the Amiga. You still could not play Doom on a stock A1200 even with chunky pixels. Any modern PC game from that era would still be way too slow. Very early stuff like Wolf3D and Wing Commander would become barely playable but that's it.

The problem was that Amigas were treated like consoles, whereas Windows systems were treated as infinitely expandable. Commodore did nothing to discourage this because their business model revolved around selling console-like Amigas to consumers and only selling their expandable systems at vastly inflated prices to video production companies and other industrial uses.

This is also why Mac gaming sucks today -- even though there's a wide variety of Macs sold they're next-to-impossible to expand and the low-to-middle-end Macs can't run modern games effectively (only the ridiculously expensive "Pro" models can, and you can't even expand the trashcan-shaped Mac Pro).

Apple managed to hang on though because they managed to market Apple products as a lifestyle accessory, something Commodore could never do -- nor did Commodore have a consumer device division (iPod/iPhone) to keep the company afloat. Apple could afford to give up on gaming, Commodore couldn't.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by AmigaHope

This is also why Mac gaming sucks today -- even though there's a wide variety of Macs sold they're next-to-impossible to expand and the low-to-middle-end Macs can't run modern games effectively (only the ridiculously expensive "Pro" models can, and you can't even expand the trashcan-shaped Mac Pro).

This is why Hackintoshes are so popular.

Apple should forget about selling their overpriced, underpowered hardware and focus on selling the OS. They don't seem to realise that's why people buy their computers.

If it was simpler to create a hackintosh, Microsoft would be dead.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

There was nothing to discuss with mcgeezer.
Bitplanes has no advantages in 256 colors and mcgeezer know it very well, as rest of community, it is common knowledge.
mcgeezer comment was pure trolling and personal attack.
you lilalurl as a moderator should react on comment like mcgeezer.
My answer was nice and funny way to tell "stop trolling".

You see, as usual with all of your posts you don’t substantiate anything with fact or put forward any theories, that is me pointing out fact and not trolling you (i have better things to do). You’ve said it yourself many times that you think the A1200 was a piece of shit that was overpriced - that’s your opinion, i don’t respect it though, in fact i totally disagree with it.

But like i said, you offer little to the actual conversation and i’m not a moderator so it’s not my place to call you out on the things you say. However i am loyal to the classic Amiga’s and people who come on forums spouting clueless bollocks like you i will respond to. If you hate the Amiga that much then why don’t you boogie on over to some pc lovers forum where you’ll be much more appreciated for your great insights and input.

And by the way, all being equal 8 bitplane mode for things like transparency will beat byte per pixel mode, if i was responding to a level headed person i would indeed offer my thoughts but don’t be doing my thinking for me and spouting them here.

[DamienD]

I've said it numerous times before; but will say it again.

@swinkamor12; why the hell are you a member of an Amiga forum considering you despise it so much???

Virtually all your posts are slagging off the Amiga; and constant rants about how much better you believe 386's are...

You are a troll!!!

[blade002]

Originally Posted by swinkamor12

a1200 has many flaws but lack of chunky pixel was main reason why Commodore bankrupt.

The MAIN reason?! maybe you need to read a few books on what actually happened to Commodore, that was a hardly a MAIN reason maybe try being a little more objective than subjective in your analysis.

[005AGIMA]

Ahhhh that moment when you return to a thread after many weeks to find it's mutated into something hideous....like bringing a child into the world only for it to turn into a drug addict.

Such proud moments :P

[blade002]

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

like bringing a child into the world only for it to turn into a drug addict.

Such proud moments :P

That's quite a stretch

[005AGIMA]

Originally Posted by blade002

That's quite a stretch

haha it's all good. This thread went south fairly early on but like a child, you can't force a thread in any direction.

The main culprit is on my ignore list anyway, so the thread looks a little neater when I'm logged in

I hate having to use that feature on a forum, but....it saves on frustration and the need to bite back.

[blade002]

Originally Posted by 005AGIMA

haha it's all good. This thread went south fairly early on but like a child, you can't force a thread in any direction.

The main culprit is on my ignore list anyway, so the thread looks a little neater when I'm logged in

I hate having to use that feature on a forum, but....it saves on frustration and the need to bite back.

lol.. nah fair enough, I can understand the analogy I rarely get involved in such discussions these days, I shouldn't have bothered to be honest