BTTR Disgrace! (resolved ;-)

icycool · 31 May 2002, 11:19

In my collection now, i have over 500 BTTR defaced disks
Is anyone as annoyed as I am as to how a webpage (called the name of a demo) dares to put thier bad name all over real groups demodisks as some sort of cheap advertising.
I thought this crap stopped with ALE.. but nooooo...

Bobic.. please stop fucking up disks.

5c962e15 Back2Roots 1000 (1998)(Scoopex)(AGA).adf
46fae18e Back2Roots 1st Intro (19xx)(Ability).adf
a2d9dd74 Back2Roots 2998z (1999)(Darkage)(AGA).adf
efe6b20f Back2Roots 6Tris (19xx)(J. Daniels)(PD).adf

Big-Byte · 31 May 2002, 11:37

In what way have ALE (and now bttr) actually modified the disks? Ive never got round to trying those ones out..

If theyve modified them in a good way (ie got the disk working on all amigas / emulators etc..) then thats ok but if they just have stuck their name on them in a text file or something I think that they should be removed from the dats and deleted.

It would save a lot of bandwidth in wasted downloads..

icycool · 31 May 2002, 12:09

Changing the original disklabel to crap and/or adding advertising text in the startup-sequence is never modifying a disk in a good way, just good for causing dupes, pissed off ppl and confusion to what the disk really is. Not to mention the loss off the original Disk Label.

Djay · 31 May 2002, 12:48

Warlock also did this by editing the bootblock on Demos...

mmmmmm

i think adding a text file to the zip is a enough

Big-Byte · 31 May 2002, 12:55

Maybe a seperate 'Tosec deleteme' dat could be created so people could identify these disks and delete them... Ive still got about 3000 adfs on my ftp that I got from the net that are not recognised yet so maybe I could clear some of them out using this dat.

31 May 2002, 13:00

Well yes, but people still shouldn't need to be bothered with this in the first place.

BuZz · 31 May 2002, 13:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Big-Byte
If theyve modified them in a good way (ie got the disk working on all amigas / emulators etc..)

I dont believe altering something to work on an Emulator is good. If the emulators inaccuracies stop it from running something which works on a real machine, thats a problem with the emulator not the demo. Like state of the art, I still keep my old version which doesnt work on os2.04. There is a fixed one, but thats altering the original code, and buggy it may be, but its not something i wish to alter. Its easy enough to keep another modified copy anyway.

Drake1009 · 31 May 2002, 13:28

It's nice though if they altered it to work on real amigas. Unlike emulators it's somewhat hard to just change the setup of your amiga to get a game working. Degraders will go only so far.

icycool · 31 May 2002, 13:30

Warlocks ADF archive (not warlock99 here) was created mostly by him from seperate files, its annoying, but not nearly as sad as altering someone elses demo release disk with nothing less than pathetic advertising.

Twistin'Ghost · 31 May 2002, 18:16

And as I have noted elsewhere on the board, the ALE modified disks contain files that are executed in the startup-sequence which are copied to the disk from WB 3.x disks, and they fail under 1.3 configs - even though the game works perfectly (and is usually designed for) KS1.3! I completely hate this nonsense, which means you need to use KS3.x to run a game from 1989! That or create yet ANOTHER disk with the proper 1.3 files in the C/ dir (or have the spam removed entirely). The latter being the better option, but in either case we are creating useless additional versions. Surely nobody wants to collect a version of a disk that's only difference is that it has been altered to promote a website.

Here we spend all this time trying to streamline the TOSEC dats to its most useful state whilst others are creating additional chaos to add to the confusion (and workload!) BTTR is a great resource, but that doesn't give it the right to trample on our preservation project in the name of self-serving spamming.

Djay · 31 May 2002, 20:10

well said twistin'

Bobic · 31 May 2002, 20:36

If a disk is labeled with "Back2Roots.org" than you can be sure that this disk was created by me. BTTR doesn't post LHA-files. Therefore we have to create ADF files of e.g. new demos and intros. Nobody of us is renaming existing disks. About 80% of all demo disks online at BTTR are coming from my own private collection. This collection consists mainly of lha files which I collected through the years.

Normally games aren't labeled with this name, except from disks which contains more than one game. You know that we can only offer games for download for which we received permission. If a disk contains three games and we have permission for only one of them, this game must be copied over to a new disk.

That's all about the "mysterious" disk name.

Djay · 31 May 2002, 20:59

yes... if you transfered the file from an Amiga to a PC then i suppose you created the files, thus you may have the right to add your name etc... to the disk

but what about adding a simple nfo file to the adf, rather than editing the bootblock (or maybe not)

i have to say that although i follow TOSEC and have over 10gbs of Amiga TOSEC, BTTR do not claim to follow this NEW standard... BTTR was here way before TOSEC existed....

if you don't like edited bootblocks etc... etc... then don't download stuff from sites you know edit the original media... personally... as long as they don't pissed up the disk (make you have to use Kickstart 3.1 for stuff released in 1989), then i'm not to bothered

i have the sickness

and download everything...

but a also agree that adfs SHOULD NOT be edited for the sake of advertising (sounds strangely Microsoft like in some way)

icycool · 31 May 2002, 21:02

Bobic,

I hope what you have said is true, putting you in the 'warlock adf's archive' category, however many of the scenes diskmags don't seem to have matching labels

Bobic · 01 June 2002, 00:33

@djay: we don't modify boot blocks from demos. all what we do is extracting the lha files, formatting a disk, naming the disk "back2roots.org", copying the extracted files onto it and adding a startup-sequence (because lha-files don't have startup-sequences as you might know ;-) ). Don't ask me how many ADFs I've created in my life, but I remember the boring days very well where I did nothing else than transfering, formatting and copying ;-) ... and forgot to "live", which I do today ;-)

and this is the way how I create and upload ADFs since 1998 (except from the name back2roots.org. This name is used for disks since 2000 when we registered and used our domain).

about downloading stuff: I don't download ADF games from the internet any more. The reason is, that meanwhile my personal collection is very very complete. Finding a rare game for me happens once in three months or so ;-). Most stuff which I got was downloaded in 1998, when sites like the DreamZone appeared and Lazarus was still alive and kicking. Not to forget the great guy Tarimeenus, who sent his big 10CD collection of ADF games to many people for free!!! All what I download frequently today are the latest scene demos.

Hope this clears everything.

Btw - BTTR mirrors amigascne.org now, too. Many great demos, even from the good old days! Many lha-files or demos as original exe-files. This means it's a hell of a job if someone wants to create ADFs of all these files ;-)).

have a nice day all of you!

Djay · 01 June 2002, 00:42

@ Bobic

yeah, Warlock's ADF is the one that edits Bootblocks, not BTTR

i can't remember how many times i've recommend BTTR to members of EAB and friends....

infact, i can't remember how many times i've visited your site...

so keep up with the good work!!!

as i pointed in my post before..... if you create the adf, then you can put whatever you want on it..... i like yourself made a huge collection before TOSEC appeared, so i know where you are coming from.....

andreas · 02 June 2002, 02:33

Quote:

Not to forget the great guy Tarimeenus, who sent his big 10CD collection of ADF games to many people for free!!!

Hell yes, I remember his name. That was way back in 1996 at Emulation Talk, where he used to post a lot. I think that lots of the ADFs in TOSEC are from his collection! Especially the ones with dates around 1995, 1996 or earlier.

31 May 2002, 11:19	#1
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	BTTR Disgrace! In my collection now, i have over 500 BTTR defaced disks Is anyone as annoyed as I am as to how a webpage (called the name of a demo) dares to put thier bad name all over real groups demodisks as some sort of cheap advertising. I thought this crap stopped with ALE.. but nooooo... Bobic.. please stop fucking up disks. 5c962e15 Back2Roots 1000 (1998)(Scoopex)(AGA).adf 46fae18e Back2Roots 1st Intro (19xx)(Ability).adf a2d9dd74 Back2Roots 2998z (1999)(Darkage)(AGA).adf efe6b20f Back2Roots 6Tris (19xx)(J. Daniels)(PD).adf

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31 May 2002, 11:37	#2
Big-Byte Long time member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: UK Posts: 754	In what way have ALE (and now bttr) actually modified the disks? Ive never got round to trying those ones out.. If theyve modified them in a good way (ie got the disk working on all amigas / emulators etc..) then thats ok but if they just have stuck their name on them in a text file or something I think that they should be removed from the dats and deleted. It would save a lot of bandwidth in wasted downloads..

31 May 2002, 12:09	#3
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Changing the original disklabel to crap and/or adding advertising text in the startup-sequence is never modifying a disk in a good way, just good for causing dupes, pissed off ppl and confusion to what the disk really is. Not to mention the loss off the original Disk Label.

31 May 2002, 12:48	#4
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	Warlock also did this by editing the bootblock on Demos... mmmmmm i think adding a text file to the zip is a enough

31 May 2002, 12:55	#5
Big-Byte Long time member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: UK Posts: 754	Maybe a seperate 'Tosec deleteme' dat could be created so people could identify these disks and delete them... Ive still got about 3000 adfs on my ftp that I got from the net that are not recognised yet so maybe I could clear some of them out using this dat.

31 May 2002, 13:00	#6
oldpx Posts: n/a	Well yes, but people still shouldn't need to be bothered with this in the first place.

31 May 2002, 13:28	#8
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	It's nice though if they altered it to work on real amigas. Unlike emulators it's somewhat hard to just change the setup of your amiga to get a game working. Degraders will go only so far.

31 May 2002, 13:30	#9
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Warlocks ADF archive (not warlock99 here) was created mostly by him from seperate files, its annoying, but not nearly as sad as altering someone elses demo release disk with nothing less than pathetic advertising.

31 May 2002, 18:16	#10
Twistin'Ghost Give up the ghost Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: U$A Age: 33 Posts: 4,662	And as I have noted elsewhere on the board, the ALE modified disks contain files that are executed in the startup-sequence which are copied to the disk from WB 3.x disks, and they fail under 1.3 configs - even though the game works perfectly (and is usually designed for) KS1.3! I completely hate this nonsense, which means you need to use KS3.x to run a game from 1989! That or create yet ANOTHER disk with the proper 1.3 files in the C/ dir (or have the spam removed entirely). The latter being the better option, but in either case we are creating useless additional versions. Surely nobody wants to collect a version of a disk that's only difference is that it has been altered to promote a website. Here we spend all this time trying to streamline the TOSEC dats to its most useful state whilst others are creating additional chaos to add to the confusion (and workload!) BTTR is a great resource, but that doesn't give it the right to trample on our preservation project in the name of self-serving spamming.

31 May 2002, 20:10	#11
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	well said twistin'

31 May 2002, 20:36	#12
Bobic Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 48 Posts: 103	If a disk is labeled with "Back2Roots.org" than you can be sure that this disk was created by me. BTTR doesn't post LHA-files. Therefore we have to create ADF files of e.g. new demos and intros. Nobody of us is renaming existing disks. About 80% of all demo disks online at BTTR are coming from my own private collection. This collection consists mainly of lha files which I collected through the years. Normally games aren't labeled with this name, except from disks which contains more than one game. You know that we can only offer games for download for which we received permission. If a disk contains three games and we have permission for only one of them, this game must be copied over to a new disk. That's all about the "mysterious" disk name.

31 May 2002, 20:59	#13
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	yes... if you transfered the file from an Amiga to a PC then i suppose you created the files, thus you may have the right to add your name etc... to the disk but what about adding a simple nfo file to the adf, rather than editing the bootblock (or maybe not) i have to say that although i follow TOSEC and have over 10gbs of Amiga TOSEC, BTTR do not claim to follow this NEW standard... BTTR was here way before TOSEC existed.... if you don't like edited bootblocks etc... etc... then don't download stuff from sites you know edit the original media... personally... as long as they don't pissed up the disk (make you have to use Kickstart 3.1 for stuff released in 1989), then i'm not to bothered i have the sickness and download everything... but a also agree that adfs SHOULD NOT be edited for the sake of advertising (sounds strangely Microsoft like in some way)

31 May 2002, 21:02	#14
icycool Banned Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Melbourne/Australia Age: 50 Posts: 203	Bobic, I hope what you have said is true, putting you in the 'warlock adf's archive' category, however many of the scenes diskmags don't seem to have matching labels

01 June 2002, 00:33	#15
Bobic Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Germany Age: 48 Posts: 103	@djay: we don't modify boot blocks from demos. all what we do is extracting the lha files, formatting a disk, naming the disk "back2roots.org", copying the extracted files onto it and adding a startup-sequence (because lha-files don't have startup-sequences as you might know ;-) ). Don't ask me how many ADFs I've created in my life, but I remember the boring days very well where I did nothing else than transfering, formatting and copying ;-) ... and forgot to "live", which I do today ;-) and this is the way how I create and upload ADFs since 1998 (except from the name back2roots.org. This name is used for disks since 2000 when we registered and used our domain). about downloading stuff: I don't download ADF games from the internet any more. The reason is, that meanwhile my personal collection is very very complete. Finding a rare game for me happens once in three months or so ;-). Most stuff which I got was downloaded in 1998, when sites like the DreamZone appeared and Lazarus was still alive and kicking. Not to forget the great guy Tarimeenus, who sent his big 10CD collection of ADF games to many people for free!!! All what I download frequently today are the latest scene demos. Hope this clears everything. Btw - BTTR mirrors amigascne.org now, too. Many great demos, even from the good old days! Many lha-files or demos as original exe-files. This means it's a hell of a job if someone wants to create ADFs of all these files ;-)). have a nice day all of you!

01 June 2002, 00:42	#16
Djay 95th User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Brighton/UK Age: 48 Posts: 3,120	@ Bobic yeah, Warlock's ADF is the one that edits Bootblocks, not BTTR i can't remember how many times i've recommend BTTR to members of EAB and friends.... infact, i can't remember how many times i've visited your site... so keep up with the good work!!! as i pointed in my post before..... if you create the adf, then you can put whatever you want on it..... i like yourself made a huge collection before TOSEC appeared, so i know where you are coming from.....

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