Second Reality by Future Crew. Amiga A1200

[Estrayk]

Originally Posted by britelite

Some parts run like crap on a 386 and even a low-end 486, so it definitely is aimed for a higher end 486 (I think a 486dx2/66 was used as compo machine at Assembly '93 where the demo was displayed). And to be honest, the codework in Second Reality isn't very impressive, the only thing (for me) that makes it worth watching is the music.

So you think that with the current knowledge and applying new algorithms could be a pixel perfect version in stock A1200?

[Foebane]

To be honest, visually, Second Reality is really nothing special, but sonically, it's legendary. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the soundtrack at least 16-bit and 8 channels minimum? AGA came along to make the Amiga visually equal to the PC on this demo, but it surely beats the Amiga on the music, hands down.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Estrayk

So you think that with the current knowledge and applying new algorithms could be a pixel perfect version in stock A1200?

Nope, a pixel perfect version needs a beefier machine.

[Estrayk]

Originally Posted by Foebane

To be honest, visually, Second Reality is really nothing special, but sonically, it's legendary. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the soundtrack at least 16-bit and 8 channels minimum? AGA came along to make the Amiga visually equal to the PC on this demo, but it surely beats the Amiga on the music, hands down.

Did you find a noticeable difference between the music in the video of the first post with the original .s3m?

Originally Posted by britelite

Nope, a pixel perfect version needs a beefier machine.

Thanks Britelite but forgive for insisting so much on this subject, but your answer I think it can be interesting for many. What machine do you think would be needed to make a perfect conversion? 030/50?

[saimon69]

I remember having seen SR at a friend home when the Gravis Ultrasound was the latest 5h17 and being blown away by the audio part - the massive Hi-Fi speakers under the table indeed did help!

Funny part he (former amigan) was showcasing me the ultrasound using some Amiga mods too! (including jimihendrix.mod and Guitar Slinger)
Later on, when i did seize my brother old hi-fi and plugged into my 1200 had my sweet revenge

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by Estrayk

Did you find a noticeable difference between the music in the video of the first post with the original .s3m?

Sorry, didn't see the OP of your thread. Good job on the mod!

When I posted the above, I had just had a quick look and listen to the PC original direct from the prod's Pouet page via a YouTube link, but now I've heard yours after reading this reply, it sounds quite close and faithful, even more remarkable if the s3m version has a higher spec. It'd be a shame if it wasn't put to use on an Amiga conversion.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Foebane

It'd be a shame if it wasn't put to use on an Amiga conversion.

I still don't quite get why would you convert a demo which is clearly a ripoff of Desert Dream.

[Hewitson]

I would say that many OCS demos have stood the test of time better than Second Reality. It's great in the audio department, but graphically, nothing worth porting in my opinion.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Estrayk

Thanks Britelite but forgive for insisting so much on this subject, but your answer I think it can be interesting for many. What machine do you think would be needed to make a perfect conversion? 030/50?

I'd say 040/060-class machine if you want all parts to run decently.

[ViLXDRYAD]

this pc demo is beautiful, if touhou's bad apple was ported virtually everywhere for art reasons i don't see why second reality wouldn't be appraised for the same

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by ViLXDRYAD

this pc demo is beautiful, if touhou's bad apple was ported virtually everywhere for art reasons i don't see why second reality wouldn't be appraised for the same

You CAN'T be serious.

[ViLXDRYAD]

why can't i? i particularly appreciate more demos that can drive you to feel more than dp tech

one of the reason of why i consider SR a memorable demo, it didn't need to do too much to touch deep, if anything the skill of telling a lot without overdoing effects is something to respect in a demo, BUT that's just matter of tastes tho

other reason is that also people seems to forget this is a ms-dos demo aimed to run in very old machines, it still stands out graphically-wise comparing with others on the platform imo

[britelite]

Originally Posted by ViLXDRYAD

it still stands out graphically-wise comparing with others on the platform imo

Only place where it stands out compared to other DOS-demos of it's era is the music, the graphics are terrible.

[britelite]

Originally Posted by ViLXDRYAD

if touhou's bad apple was ported virtually everywhere for art reasons i don't see why second reality wouldn't be appraised for the same

Bad Apple is an animation, not a demo, so it gives coders the opportunity to show off their own video compression or vector animation routines.

Remaking Second Reality on lesser platforms, while a huge task, just feels like a cheap way to get attention to possibly subpar routines that wouldn't cut it in an original demo.

[ViLXDRYAD]

graphics are matter of tastes tho

Bad Apple was a bad example to compare tbh, i just wanted to state i find SR a nice artwork and i happen to go back to it after every often, i wouldn't mind seeing a port in another console

true that may not be the best choice to use their routines in a new demo but the whole thing has a place in my heart, also for nostalgia matters lol

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by ViLXDRYAD

graphics are matter of tastes tho

Bad Apple was a bad example to compare tbh, i just wanted to state i find SR a nice artwork and i happen to go back to it after every often, i wouldn't mind seeing a port in another console

true that may not be the best choice to use their routines in a new demo but the whole thing has a place in my heart, also for nostalgia matters lol

I've seen many high-end Amiga demos that blow SR out of the water, and require similar or lesser processing power. I could provide a list if you like?

[ViLXDRYAD]

is always good to have amiga demos recommended! i'd really appreciate it!

though i think it's a bit unfair to compare demos for two platforms so wildly different in specs/timelines to see which is better

[britelite]

Originally Posted by Foebane

I've seen many high-end Amiga demos that blow SR out of the water, and require similar or lesser processing power.

Just remember that 060 is out of the question in that case

Also, if you really want to be fair you can't include demos made later than the early/mid-90's.

[Foebane]

Originally Posted by britelite

Also, if you really want to be fair you can't include demos made later than the early/mid-90's.

In that case, that's most of them wiped out.

[britelite]

And still while we're on the subject of Second Reality. While I'm not particularly fond of the demo itself, I do respect the fact that it was a milestone in the PC-scene back in the days, as it really set the bar higher in respects of music and overall flow. Something Future Crew already did previously with the demo Panic (which is my favourite of their demos).

But that doesn't make it significant to the Amiga in any way, as it's fairly obvious that it's still heavily inspired by Amiga demos from that time. Isn't it enough that Amiga-demos started copying PC-demos in the mid/late-90's, do we really want to look like we're admitting defeat and make a lesser version of the demo on the Amiga?

Also one thing that's been puzzling me for quite some time is the weird inferiority complex prevalent in the Amiga-scene today, where people are just begging for games to be ported over to the Amiga? As a developer it feels really weird, as at least I would rather make something of my own, where I could also do whatever I wish with my product. And with this in mind, asking for DEMOS to be ported over just feels even more backwards.