AlarCity: Development Thread

[Predseda]

So wednesday Bill this time. Okay, I hope I will see you there.

[Gzegzolka]

It sound very interesting, I would love to see it

[Predseda]

Thank you earok for that stream contribution, much appreciated. I am looking forward to the game even more now.

[earok]

Originally Posted by Predseda

Thank you earok for that stream contribution, much appreciated. I am looking forward to the game even more now.

Hey no worries, thanks for attending the stream!

[Clydos]

@earok: Yeah, thanks for your stream contribution and all the infos!

But IMHO it was obvious (at least as a viewer) that it is quite hard if you don't have a chance for twin stick like actions, although I don't know how you would implement that with a CD32 pad (what about Tower 57? Does this support twin stick action on Amiga? If yes, with which hardware?). But I can imagine that this will be a bit frustrating. It looked a bit awkward how AmigaBill had to run, turn back, shoot, turn back, run, turn back, shoot ... I recognized that the shooting direction is locked to you last direction when stand still, but ...

Well, when you talked about the twin stick stuff, the audio stream was interrupted. It _sounded_ like you said sth like "we reconsider controls vor AlarCity 2"!? Did I understand that right that you plan a follow up?

Nevertheless, the game looks superb and I will preorder, even if controls may not be optimal (or you get used to it once you play).

[earok]

Originally Posted by Clydos

@earok: Yeah, thanks for your stream contribution and all the infos!

But IMHO it was obvious (at least as a viewer) that it is quite hard if you don't have a chance for twin stick like actions, although I don't know how you would implement that with a CD32 pad (what about Tower 57? Does this support twin stick action on Amiga? If yes, with which hardware?). But I can imagine that this will be a bit frustrating. It looked a bit awkward how AmigaBill had to run, turn back, shoot, turn back, run, turn back, shoot ... I recognized that the shooting direction is locked to you last direction when stand still, but ...

Well, when you talked about the twin stick stuff, the audio stream was interrupted. It _sounded_ like you said sth like "we reconsider controls vor AlarCity 2"!? Did I understand that right that you plan a follow up?

Nevertheless, the game looks superb and I will preorder, even if controls may not be optimal (or you get used to it once you play).

Thanks for your feedback!

"AlarCity 2" was bit of an off the cuff topic. Nothing is planned there though Tsak and I occasionally talk about stuff that the current design doesn't allow for that we could possibly put in a sequel. Twin stick? Two player? OCS or RTG support? Who knows. It all depends on whether there's enough demand for a sequel I guess, though there's also a large number of other projects that PixelGlass would like to tackle next (beyond AlarCity and Worthy of course)


Controls are a complicated topic, it's something that Tsak and I have bounced between us many times. Being an Amiga game, it should be fun and balanced first and foremost for people with a one button joystick. If it's made into a game where twin-stick is an option (say as either you need two joysticks like Smash TV Amiga, or use the four face buttons on a gamepad like Smash TV SNES), will it be unfair on users that only have a single one button joystick? Would it be too easy for twin stick users if the difficulty is optimised for single stick use, and would it be too hard for single stick users if difficulty is optimised for dual stick use?

The design is not absolutely final. At one point we had "backfire weapons" (which were duplicates of the current weapon sets, but fired backwards), re-implementing that could be an option. Something like Tower Assault's "retreat" mode is also an option I guess. Or an option to keep firing in the same direction once you've held down the fire button.

We (PixelGlass) will chat about this, and see if we can do something that's broadly satisfying across control setups. But of course, any and all feedback here is appreciated and considered, so to everyone - please let us know what you think.

[Clydos]

Oh, there are so many sweet infos in your post, earok ...

Although AlarCity is not out, I think demand for a sequel is already there (seeing how good the quality of AlarCity is). Especially an 2-player-mode would be nice. Maybe even online coop (with AmigaLive?)!?

But: Other games from you besides Worthy and Alar? Wow ... Do them first! :-) Looking forward to more infos about them! :-)

I see your point with targeting one button joysticks. Maybe it is possible to change game options (use one button/more button controller) and based on that you change the difficulty ingame?

Hm, I don't know how that retreat mode works in TA; would you mind to explain that?
Backfire weapons sound like a great weapon add on, so I would like to see that (as a bonus that you can collect or update your weapon accordingly).

[earok]

Originally Posted by Clydos

Oh, there are so many sweet infos in your post, earok ...

Although AlarCity is not out, I think demand for a sequel is already there (seeing how good the quality of AlarCity is). Especially an 2-player-mode would be nice. Maybe even online coop (with AmigaLive?)!?

But: Other games from you besides Worthy and Alar? Wow ... Do them first! :-) Looking forward to more infos about them! :-)

I see your point with targeting one button joysticks. Maybe it is possible to change game options (use one button/more button controller) and based on that you change the difficulty ingame?

Hm, I don't know how that retreat mode works in TA; would you mind to explain that?
Backfire weapons sound like a great weapon add on, so I would like to see that (as a bonus that you can collect or update your weapon accordingly).

To be clear, I haven't had anything to do with Worthy other than a tiny bit of playtesting Worthy is Tsak's design and art married to Alpine9000's code.

I've had a talk to Tsak about alternative fire control schemes, I think we're going to go ahead and offer other options it isn't finalised yet but broadly speaking I'd like to offer these options.

1) Classic (Default, identical to now)
2) Retreat (Shoots in opposite direction that you last moved in, this is the feature borrowed from Alien Breed TA)
3) Hold (Direction is constant when you're holding down fire)
4) Twin (Aim with mouse port joystick or face buttons on CD32 pad)

Again, not finalised, we may not be able to offer all ^ of the above but I'd like to be able to talk about them to get feedback etc.

In regards to how it might influence difficultly, well.. it shouldn't be too much of an issue but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[Clydos]

It is interesting how Pixelglass is split (in a positive way). What is the core group of Pixelglass (if there is one)? You, Task and Alpine9000?

I guess you and Alpine9000 use no framework like Backbone or sth but create your games completely new!?

Are there programming collaborations planed between you and Alpine9000?

Regarding fire control schemes: Thanks for talking to Tsak about it! I don't know how hard it is to implement all the options you mentioned, but maybe it would be possible to release and updated version of the demo where you have implemented at least some of the mentioned control schemes so we could test them out and give feedback!?

[Tsak]

Originally Posted by Clydos

It is interesting how Pixelglass is split (in a positive way). What is the core group of Pixelglass (if there is one)? You, Task and Alpine9000?

The core group is us 3, yes. But there's also JMD who has helped with the music and other people contributing.

Originally Posted by Clydos

I guess you and Alpine9000 use no framework like Backbone or sth but create your games completely new!?

Backbone? No. All games we work on are coded in a traditional way.

Originally Posted by Clydos

Are there programming collaborations planed between you and Alpine9000?

No programming collaborations are planned for now. Most important reason is that alpine9000 codes in C while Erik uses Blitz 2. Besides that, each one can focus on specific projects and thus create more games. Also getting 2 coders to split their work for a single project has several practical issues from plan to execution.
Besides that, I feel quite lucky working with 2 of the most talented (and active) guys the scene has to offer

[Predseda]

I do not want to sound negative, but I think the the way you inform potentional buyers about important news is a bit unhappy. This Alar TV game mode, which is pretty big change to the whole game concept and can attract new players (and buyers) is mentioned ONLY here and in Amiga Bill's stream. It is impossible to find it anywhere, it is not on youtube and it is not EVEN ON YOUR OFFICIAL WEBSITE!!!!

[earok]

Originally Posted by Predseda

I do not want to sound negative, but I think the the way you inform potentional buyers about important news is a bit unhappy. This Alar TV game mode, which is pretty big change to the whole game concept and can attract new players (and buyers) is mentioned ONLY here and in Amiga Bill's stream. It is impossible to find it anywhere, it is not on youtube and it is not EVEN ON YOUR OFFICIAL WEBSITE!!!!

I can see where you're coming from. It's like.. this is going to be bit of a candid ramble, but..

I like showing off what I'm working on, even if it's unfinished, warts an' all, to get some degree of validation and feedback (also as a hobbyist, I just enjoy making stuff for Amiga and talking about it). But to a degree, that needs to be balanced with presenting the work in the best possible light - my very first video of the AlarCity engine met with some derision because it was simply a demo showing I could move some BOBs around a scrolling playfield. I was pleased at the time but it's not good even as an early representation of the project and what we could pull off.

AlarTV isn't ready for prime time, in any sense - the art I'm working with is all stand in (it's intended to be an indoor mode rather than an outdoor one, counter to how it currently looks), and the design itself isn't set in concrete. But I had been tinkering with it quietly for so long, that I really wanted to show it in some way that wasn't meant to be an official representation of the game, to show that good progress IS being made despite the long gestation of the project, and to see what people thought. To that end, AmigaBill's show was perfect in that it helped me gather validation for the parts that worked, and see solutions for the parts that could have been better, but if we were to present it in any official sense it'd be selling ourselves short - IMO, AlarTV mode is pretty good as is, but it'll be so much better when the code is done and it has the same polish that Tsak applied to Worthy's art and animation.

[Tsak]

Yup, I agree with Erik. A little patience guys, we're gonna show a lot more stuff once we get our current work to a more presentable state.

[earok]

I'm going to start posting a Saturday dev-log of the stuff I've been up to on the project.

* Worked on making the "AlarTV" rooms a bit larger, including the addition of columns and such for cover from enemy fire.
* Continuing to restructure the code more cleanly, in a more C-like structure (using functions a opposed to goto/gosubs). This helps with code maintenance, variable reuse, and converting some parts of the code base to ASM.
* General bug fixes and tidy ups, mostly around the shop.

This week I'm going to start on the new control schemes. Certainly looking forward to trying out twin-stick mode on CD32 pad!

[Clydos]

I like these little dev diarys! Nice, thank you, earok!

Ah, also looking forward to what you can do with the CD32 pad!

[earok]

Time for the weekly dev log.

I haven't yet started on the control schemes, what I was focusing on (asides from the usual bug fixes and refactoring) instead is a reworking of the "AlarTV" mode. The rooms are larger, I may make them larger still but they've been flushed out vertically so they're square - they scroll up and down a bit, but there's no horizontal scrolling in them yet.

They're also now large enough to fit columns and walls in, which offers some new gameplay opportunities to the mode - both advantageous and disadvantageous I've found in that, while the walls can be used to evade enemies they can also be used to box you in if the enemies approach you from both sides (the enemies don't always go after you in a beeline, they can prefer to approach you on different axes which can lead to you getting surrounded pretty quickly). The walls and columns also provide you and them with cover.

This week I intend to finish up the reworking of AlarTV, and then perhaps get stuck into the new control schemes.

[MickGyver]

Originally Posted by earok

This week I'm going to start on the new control schemes. Certainly looking forward to trying out twin-stick mode on CD32 pad!

The layout of the buttons on the CD32 pad may not be ideal for twin-stick mode, still might work.

[earok]

Originally Posted by MickGyver

The layout of the buttons on the CD32 pad may not be ideal for twin-stick mode, still might work.

True, but with a pad that has SNES cross shaped button layout.. I have a competition pro pad but I should get yours to test, too

[idrougge]

Originally Posted by Predseda

I do not want to sound negative, but I think the the way you inform potentional buyers about important news is a bit unhappy. This Alar TV game mode, which is pretty big change to the whole game concept and can attract new players (and buyers) is mentioned ONLY here and in Amiga Bill's stream. It is impossible to find it anywhere, it is not on youtube and it is not EVEN ON YOUR OFFICIAL WEBSITE!!!!

That was just uncalled for, Predseda. The way they handle their public relations is their business.

[ReadOnlyCat]

Just a note that the images included as part of the quoted post below are now inaccessible: :'(

Originally Posted by earok