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Old 21 October 2018, 17:53   #41
number6
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Originally Posted by SpeedGeek View Post
Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. It's Hyperion who is wrecking the Amiga scene. Hyperion filed a lawsuit against Amino in retaliation for Cloanto's lawsuit against Hyperion. This now exposes Hyperion to several "Breach of Contract" claims from Amino which Cloanto could not bring by themselves (e.g. "What comes around goes around").

The fact that Amino has sided with Cloanto on most of the disputed issues speaks for itself. Hyperion could have avoided all of this by strictly following their license agreement. Instead they claimed "Implied" rights to distribute any version of Amiga OS and use any trademarks they wished.
Not to belabor the point, but Cloanto lost the workbench (euipo) trademark, if that's the one you refer to.
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Old 21 October 2018, 18:04   #42
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Only people winning anything in all this are the lawyers.
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Old 21 October 2018, 18:32   #43
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Not to belabor the point, but Cloanto lost the workbench (euipo) trademark, if that's the one you refer to.
Source

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No, that's not what I'm referring to. The lawsuit(s) were filed in U.S. Federal court because the parties have agreed this court has jurisdiction over their agreements. That's also why Cloanto is requesting a "Declaratory Judgement" for the USPTO.

What ultimately happens in the EU (or individual European countries) will probably spark another round of lawsuits in each respective jurisdiction.
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Old 21 October 2018, 21:28   #44
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Just bought, until the next betrayal occurs.
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Old 21 October 2018, 22:31   #45
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Perspective here...
I know it might seem like the end of days, but...
No one can "wreck" the Amiga anymore. Commodore did that ages ago. :-)

Can some business do something annoying? Yep.
It's business. It's kind of what they do.
They also do good things from time to time. Probably just accidentally, but it happens. ;-)

At the end of the day, we still have our Amigas.
There will still be people working on them.

The support will ebb and flow, but the Amiga will persist. We Amiga fans will persist.

Let's appreciate the good. Ride out the bad.

Enjoy what we have. It's an Amiga. It's all good. ;-)

(Fact is AmigaOS 3.1.4 is out there. That cat ain't getting back in his bag. No one can do that. ;-)
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Old 22 October 2018, 01:02   #46
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Perspective here...
At the end of the day, we still have our Amigas.
There will still be people working on them.
This is true but the issue as I see it is this: you have a bunch of greedy morons, that bicker and fight among themselves like little children, who just want to sit on the name "Amiga" with all of it's trademarks etc. and make money from it for as little work as possible. If a real "adult" with any real sense of purpose had bought the trademarks we would have seen greater progress with the Amiga computing concept than we see now.

Sure it still wouldn't be anywhere near close to where Windows and Apple platforms are now, and that's not what I'm saying. The progress of 68K AmigaOS wouldn't be anywhere near as stifled as it is now if there wasn't any of this bickering over who owns the rights to the OS etc.

All the recent major contributions towards 68K based Amiga in the last few years have all come from the fans. Those who are "legally" supposed to own the "right" have done nothing!!!
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Old 22 October 2018, 01:16   #47
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This is true but the issue as I see it is this: you have a bunch of greedy morons, that bicker and fight among themselves like little children,
So, they are business people. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_skroht View Post
Sure it still wouldn't be anywhere near close to where Windows and Apple platforms are now, and that's not what I'm saying. The progress of 68K AmigaOS wouldn't be anywhere near as stifled as it is now if there wasn't any of this bickering over who owns the rights to the OS etc.
Or it could be as robust as the support for GEM/TOS on the ST today? ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_skroht View Post
All the recent major contributions towards 68K based Amiga in the last few years have all come from the fans. Those who are "legally" supposed to own the "right" have done nothing!!!
I think "nothing" is a bit harsh.
Just having a commercial product like AmigaForever helps keep awareness high and a larger customer base (more fans). A lot of current fans started or got back into Amiga because of AmigaForever.
You can legally buy kickstart ROMs and copies of various versions of AmigaOS today.
Try to do that with some of the other retro computers. ;-)

I think comparing the Amiga to Windows or even Mac is more than stretching it.
Compare it to the ST.

We don't have a perfect list of companies for Amiga support. But with all of their bickering, we are still in better shape than many other retro platforms.
Yes, there is lots of bad, if that is what you are looking for.
But there are positives also..
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Old 22 October 2018, 01:28   #48
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yeah its sad that all this money gets wasted instead of going into the AMIGA
stupid court battles etc etc such a waste of time and money
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Old 22 October 2018, 03:21   #49
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[...] Just having a commercial product like AmigaForever helps keep awareness high and a larger customer base (more fans). A lot of current fans started or got back into Amiga because of AmigaForever.[...]
"because of" : -1

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Originally Posted by desiv View Post
[...] You can legally buy kickstart ROMs and copies of various versions of AmigaOS today. [...]
Thanks to Hyperion

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yeah its sad that all this money gets wasted instead of going into the AMIGA
stupid court battles etc etc such a waste of time and money
+1
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Old 22 October 2018, 04:38   #50
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"because of" : -1
Yep, whether or not you agree with it, it's still true.
People get AmigaForever to rekindle their Amiga history. Like it, and get more into Amiga.

Shocking, but true..
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Old 22 October 2018, 08:51   #51
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Thanks to Hyperion
No, thanks to Olsen and ThoR. All Hyperion did was to delude them into thinking Hyperion have "exclusive rights" to continue development of OS3 (a very dubious claim.)

With some luck, Cloanto pulls out of anything Amiga and leaves Hyperion to bring not just OS4, but also OS3, with them to their grave. In our lifetime.
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Old 22 October 2018, 12:02   #52
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Just having a commercial product like AmigaForever helps keep awareness high and a larger customer base (more fans). A lot of current fans started or got back into Amiga because of AmigaForever.
Without Amiga Forever and its stranglehold on the OS, you could download a working Amiga emulator as easily as you can download a Megadrive emulator. That would give even more casual users an entry into Amiga emulation than being forced to buy the entire concoction.

Quote:
You can legally buy kickstart ROMs and copies of various versions of AmigaOS today.
What is preferable about "legally buy" as opposed to "legally download"?
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Old 22 October 2018, 14:18   #53
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Yep, whether or not you agree with it, it's still true. [...]
It's your truth, not everyone's.
I am more along the lines of idrougge.
I don't know how much Toni is involved with AmigaForever, but as WinUAE coder, I hope he could make quite a little nest egg to put in the jam jar.
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Old 22 October 2018, 14:24   #54
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You can start at looking at the history of WinUAE and Cloanto's involvement, it's all on wayback machine and in the source code repo.
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Old 22 October 2018, 17:45   #55
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Without Amiga Forever and its stranglehold on the OS, you could download a working Amiga emulator as easily as you can download a Megadrive emulator.
You can do that WITH AmigaForever existing too...
It's like people think WinUAE (or WinFellow or the original UAE) didn't exist before AmigaForever...

And has anyone who needed Amiga OS ADFs and ROMs ever really had any problem finding them?
There is this thing called google.. It helps with that.. ;-)

If what people are saying is: "I want everything to be free and legal" then.. you are right.. It's not...
But it is a funny thing.
The fact that there are companies making money off of it means there is still some development. Yes, they fight with each other.
But how many further software advances have there been with ST OS and GUI? How much advancement has there been with 68k Mac OS?

If you are saying that whenever any tech gets XX years old, the owner(s) should give it away for free and release all the source....
Well, good luck with that.. ;-)
I am not and have never said it is all good. All I am saying is that there is good with the bad. We should appreciate the good. ;-) That's all I am saying.

Have a good one..
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Old 22 October 2018, 17:46   #56
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It's your truth, not everyone's.
That is not the way truth works. ;-)
You can argue that it doesn't happen very often, or it is not significant. That's fine. Maybe...

But it does happen.
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Old 22 October 2018, 18:54   #57
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But how many further software advances have there been with ST OS and GUI?

Actively maintained, open source, code publicly available, no bizarre contracts, no money, no stress.


https://github.com/freemint
https://github.com/emutos/emutos
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Old 22 October 2018, 18:59   #58
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Cloanto are a bunch of money grubbing cons trying to squeeze out any last drop out of the Amiga!
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Old 22 October 2018, 19:21   #59
desiv
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Actively maintained, open source, code publicly available, no bizarre contracts, no money, no stress.
https://github.com/freemint
https://github.com/emutos/emutos
But those are the official branch(es).
We have Icaros and AROS as well.
And those are great and what you expect from an older non-supported computer.


But they aren't Atari releases.


I love those type of projects. And they are what you should expect, IMHO.
But expecting a company whose job it is is to make money, to give away resources for free???
I don't see how people are surprised that they are trying to make money.


If you want totally free and open, there is AROS. Win Win. ;-)
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Old 22 October 2018, 19:22   #60
desiv
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Cloanto are a bunch of money grubbing cons trying to squeeze out any last drop out of the Amiga!
So they are running a business. ;-)
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