Athropy / Enigma - Page 2

DDNI · 17 March 2007, 17:40

OK sent this email to Trevor Mensah at Pistonheads. Awiting a reply.

"Hi there, Allan (DDNI) from http://eab.abime.net English Amiga Board here. Are you 2-cool/lsd??

If so we were hoping you could cast some light on this missing game - Atrophy/Enigma which is discussed here http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=308115#post308115

If you are the Trevor Mensah who is also 2cool/lsd would you drop by and have a look?

Many thanks

Allan"

viddi · 17 March 2007, 17:44

Thanks, DDNI

Rebel-CD32 · 19 March 2007, 03:22

I remember reading about these games back in the magazines, and definitely would have bought them, and still would if they were completed and released now.

19 March 2007, 15:29

Hello Gentlemen,

With the power of the internet, you found me.

I am franky astonished that all these years later my ancient games from way back are still generating interest/curiousity. I have not touched an Amiga for nearly two decades now. I gave my A1200 away what seems like centuries ago, source-code and all. It had everything on, the Enigma sources, my game engine, megabytes worth of source-codes I had collected or written, lot.

I think Lee Smith (musician) may have had a copy of the source code to Enigma but I cannot be sure as I have not spoke to him for many years. I may still have partial sources on a A3000 dev machine somewhere in the attic! If I find them I'd gladly share them with the community, assuming anyone can still remember how to develop in MC680x0 assembly

Back then it was quite impressive what was achieved, the game actually used ADCMP compression for the audio samples (technology later used in cell phones for voice compression) for the Soundtracker sample compression. The playback routines also real-time mixed the sound samples with the game soundtrack for 8-channel reproduction, all so it could fit seamlessly onto a 3 floppies with several hours worth of music.

Atrophy Shelved
Regarding Atrophy, unfortunately I had a severe falling out with Frank Tout over game design (mostly graphics and music) and up front royalty payments. To this day we have never talked again. This is the biggest shame because we where very good friends and in the end all of this was just pointless really.

Due to all of this the original Atrophy was shelved (Although I am not sure if Frank did anything else himself with the concept) and the team (graphics Danny Hammond, music Lee Smith and myself Trevor Mensah) created Enigma a spin off, again using quarter pixel scrolling for ultra high precision smoothness. This game was actually ground up new, not using any of the original Atrophy source-codes at all. The formation of a new company was to differentiate the two games.

Enigma Shelved
Sadly Enigma never released either for a number of reasons;
1) Legal: Threats of injunctions and countless letters received from Franks solicitors made everyone sceptical that a publisher would want to release the game for fear of action (despite it being unfounded, the game was total re-written which could be proven by access to the sources) but this was not the main reason.

2) Completion: We only developed 4 levels out of the 8 promised. (Actually looked hugely impressive at the time in the water level scene with the moving water level and copperlist water effects). In the end I created a scripting language (which assembled down to bytecode in much the same way that Java-VM's work), this allowed the musician, lee to create all the alien waves and essentially script the logic of the themed game levels.

3) Life got in the way: Had no time personally to complete the final levels and some collision detection was a little cumbersome, as I was in the midst of my of degree course the game got 2nd priority.

I left the gaming scene with the Amiga, then spent a few years in Philips R&D labs on consumer products like the very 1st Generation DVD players (!), Plasma's and also LEP (Light Emitting Polymer) display technologies.

Amiga chipset in STB's!
In my managerial capacity of working for a large consumer electronics company I even contacted Commodore directly and offered to 'buy' the rights to the AGA chipset to be used in TV's and Set Top Boxes of the 90's. At the time it would have been amazing for me to resurrect the old girl but Commodore said no, regardless of the money offered (considerable!). The offer was sadly rejected because of their claims around some very confusing matters surrounding the loss of the design schematics (very strange!). Amiga chipsets in satellite and cable TV boxes was never meant to be (although it came close, VERY close)...

Trev

DDNI · 19 March 2007, 15:41

@360Trev Fantastic! really good of you to drop by and give us an update. Spookily, i have just emailed Lee Smith looking for you!

Heres hoping that he has kept a copy of Enigma Source codes.
Please do you best to raid your attic and dig out that A3000. There are many great coders on this board that would love to work with you on resurrecting the code.

How do you feel about a return to the Amiga scene. WinUAE is a fantastic way back in! Have you tried it?

Hope that you keep in touch, regards all of EAB!

19 March 2007, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDNI

@360Trev Fantastic! really good of you to drop by and give us an update. Spookily, i have just emailed Lee Smith looking for you!

Heres hoping that he has kept a copy of Enigma Source codes.
Please do you best to raid your attic and dig out that A3000. There are many great coders on this board that would love to work with you on resurrecting the code.

How do you feel about a return to the Amiga scene. WinUAE is a fantastic way back in! Have you tried it?

Hope that you keep in touch, regards all of EAB!

I am currently in Sweden on Business (yes its snowing) but when I return to UK I will see what I can do! Seems strange that people are still enthusing about the amiga in these days of 128 core Intel processors and 1 billion polygons

Allan, alas, I sadly dont have the luxury of time to participate any more but I would gladly offer the original sources if I can find them. Due to work I am forever travelling on business (in the last few months I've done Norway, Sweden, USA, Italy, etc.), the very small amount of hobby time I do get @ home is now consumed with playing with my cars and relaxing in my home.

When it comes to a toss up of old 68k dev vs driving my Ferrari 360 hard it wins everytime

, I was almost crying the year I bought as within weeks my work forced me to spend 10 months in Los Angeles, CA and 6 in Atlanta, GA (

with my said car stuck neatly sulking in my garage back in the UK). Regarding dev contributions, Ok 1 step at a time pls!!! lets just see how this develops...

DDNI · 19 March 2007, 15:59

No worries Trev! I cant match you for cars

but when we get to travelling I aint far behind - Miami Dusseldorf Jersey Amsterdam London Dublin and Dubai with work this year! (Pharma Research). I find Wireless and WinUAE are my only saviours when away from home for long periods - I stay away from the fleshpots

DDNI · 19 March 2007, 18:03

Have we enough here for AGTW entries?

DDNI · 20 March 2007, 09:18

I found that MOD tracks for Enigma. In the Zone now.

nujack · 20 March 2007, 22:52

Yeah - good news and an interesting background story !!!
Let`s hope that Trevor can find the sources and that this game isn`t lost forever. That would be so cool if I can play it after 10 years on my A4000. Nice tunes ...

Bye

nujack

CuLpRiT · 20 March 2007, 23:14

Mr Mensah! There u r!

Ok, GOOd news is, I possibly have the odd bit of code, I have disk 1 of that game demo we took to London. Its the 1st version, just the loading and main title. I got the music, I got some or maybe all of Wade's gfx... The end of level baddies etc and some bobs/maps. And no doubt some 'bak&2' idea emails.

The bad bit is im pretty sure i aint got the whole source. I mean, u must have given it in order 2 help create the scripts, but I have have tingly feeling a lot was lost during 1 of those wonderful defrag moments.

It might take some time sifting stuff....

Hi people!

dlfrsilver · 21 March 2007, 00:15

Hi culprit, welcome

DDNI · 21 March 2007, 00:15

Hi Lee! Damn if only I had known you were on EAB all along

Great news about you having some remnants of the game! Anything that can go onto Amiga Games That Werent would be fantastic!!

Great tunes btw!!

viddi · 21 March 2007, 09:56

Hi Culprit!!

And YESSS!!! Even a playable demo would be fantastic!

CuLpRiT · 21 March 2007, 20:22

A side issue, but just an insight on how Mr Tout seems 2 think...

Just noticed on his entry on AMP, Hes got a mod called doc disk issue #42...

He doesnt seem 2 mind stealing and taking credit of other peoples mods. Maybe thats y he was so distrustful of any1 taking his code. (Even tho this game was completely recoded for optimisation. 1 reason 4 the name change. Franks code didnt mut the custard.)

Look a this songdata. ..... -> by the art of lsd

This little peachypack tune was my own. It was called 'tor!'

Cheers Frank

22 March 2007, 00:40

Hello people my name is Lee and I can confirm that the game did work because I happened to see it working. Well what the guys had done so far anyway. I was friends with Mr Smth and because I owned a working car he asked me to take him up to Trevors, and thats when I seen it. Maybe if Trevor and guys did a game on one of the modern platforms that would be great the music would still be same though but hey you could always mute it.

DDNI · 22 March 2007, 00:50

Welcome Leeroy!
Damn!! Cheshire looks like an Amiga hotspot today!!!

22 March 2007, 01:23

well lee does not use his anymore he just sits at his pc wishing Amigas won the battle of computers all thoose years ago. Any way lets hope Trevor will give me a go of his 360 in exchange for ago of my mini cooper fair deal I think

StrategyGamer · 02 April 2007, 14:24

I will trade you my sister for just 1 playable level of this awesome sounding game!

CuLpRiT · 07 April 2007, 02:37

Well, its news Jim, but not as we'd like it..

Someone will have 2giz a hand routing thru my HD0: They may find bits of Mensah engine, then again maybe not...

Wade's GFX (some)- .iff .bnk .cmap .raw .msk (Does PPaint recognise .bnk?)

Bob patterns (some)- .s (Mensah Engine-dependant)

2 files called Unit0 (Ok, I temporarily renamed 1... To uUnit0..)

Im sure they r in DS0: format. Maybe the Demo Disk 1 or 2...... Or Superfrog..

If it is Demo Disk 2, it might not tell u..

If it is Superfrog disk2 it also might not tell u!

I cant remember how this worked. I think DS0: was just mounted..

I have 1 floppy that is an Enigma Demo disk 1. Im not optimistic that its Wade's gfx used tho. Im feeling its the 1st test disk with Touts tum-churning mess. I hope im wrong.

How old is the sister?

19 March 2007, 15:29	#24
360trev Posts: n/a	2-Cool/LSd! Hello Gentlemen, With the power of the internet, you found me. I am franky astonished that all these years later my ancient games from way back are still generating interest/curiousity. I have not touched an Amiga for nearly two decades now. I gave my A1200 away what seems like centuries ago, source-code and all. It had everything on, the Enigma sources, my game engine, megabytes worth of source-codes I had collected or written, lot. I think Lee Smith (musician) may have had a copy of the source code to Enigma but I cannot be sure as I have not spoke to him for many years. I may still have partial sources on a A3000 dev machine somewhere in the attic! If I find them I'd gladly share them with the community, assuming anyone can still remember how to develop in MC680x0 assembly Back then it was quite impressive what was achieved, the game actually used ADCMP compression for the audio samples (technology later used in cell phones for voice compression) for the Soundtracker sample compression. The playback routines also real-time mixed the sound samples with the game soundtrack for 8-channel reproduction, all so it could fit seamlessly onto a 3 floppies with several hours worth of music. Atrophy Shelved Regarding Atrophy, unfortunately I had a severe falling out with Frank Tout over game design (mostly graphics and music) and up front royalty payments. To this day we have never talked again. This is the biggest shame because we where very good friends and in the end all of this was just pointless really. Due to all of this the original Atrophy was shelved (Although I am not sure if Frank did anything else himself with the concept) and the team (graphics Danny Hammond, music Lee Smith and myself Trevor Mensah) created Enigma a spin off, again using quarter pixel scrolling for ultra high precision smoothness. This game was actually ground up new, not using any of the original Atrophy source-codes at all. The formation of a new company was to differentiate the two games. Enigma Shelved Sadly Enigma never released either for a number of reasons; 1) Legal: Threats of injunctions and countless letters received from Franks solicitors made everyone sceptical that a publisher would want to release the game for fear of action (despite it being unfounded, the game was total re-written which could be proven by access to the sources) but this was not the main reason. 2) Completion: We only developed 4 levels out of the 8 promised. (Actually looked hugely impressive at the time in the water level scene with the moving water level and copperlist water effects). In the end I created a scripting language (which assembled down to bytecode in much the same way that Java-VM's work), this allowed the musician, lee to create all the alien waves and essentially script the logic of the themed game levels. 3) Life got in the way: Had no time personally to complete the final levels and some collision detection was a little cumbersome, as I was in the midst of my of degree course the game got 2nd priority. I left the gaming scene with the Amiga, then spent a few years in Philips R&D labs on consumer products like the very 1st Generation DVD players (!), Plasma's and also LEP (Light Emitting Polymer) display technologies. Amiga chipset in STB's! In my managerial capacity of working for a large consumer electronics company I even contacted Commodore directly and offered to 'buy' the rights to the AGA chipset to be used in TV's and Set Top Boxes of the 90's. At the time it would have been amazing for me to resurrect the old girl but Commodore said no, regardless of the money offered (considerable!). The offer was sadly rejected because of their claims around some very confusing matters surrounding the loss of the design schematics (very strange!). Amiga chipsets in satellite and cable TV boxes was never meant to be (although it came close, VERY close)... Trev

22 March 2007, 00:40	#36
leeroy Posts: n/a	I`ve seen it Hello people my name is Lee and I can confirm that the game did work because I happened to see it working. Well what the guys had done so far anyway. I was friends with Mr Smth and because I owned a working car he asked me to take him up to Trevors, and thats when I seen it. Maybe if Trevor and guys did a game on one of the modern platforms that would be great the music would still be same though but hey you could always mute it.

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17 March 2007, 17:40	#21
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	OK sent this email to Trevor Mensah at Pistonheads. Awiting a reply. "Hi there, Allan (DDNI) from http://eab.abime.net English Amiga Board here. Are you 2-cool/lsd?? If so we were hoping you could cast some light on this missing game - Atrophy/Enigma which is discussed here http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=308115#post308115 If you are the Trevor Mensah who is also 2cool/lsd would you drop by and have a look? Many thanks Allan"

17 March 2007, 17:44	#22
viddi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Age: 44 Posts: 4,007	Thanks, DDNI

19 March 2007, 03:22	#23
Rebel-CD32 Amiga will never die! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tasmania, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 532	I remember reading about these games back in the magazines, and definitely would have bought them, and still would if they were completed and released now.

19 March 2007, 15:41	#25
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	@360Trev Fantastic! really good of you to drop by and give us an update. Spookily, i have just emailed Lee Smith looking for you! Heres hoping that he has kept a copy of Enigma Source codes. Please do you best to raid your attic and dig out that A3000. There are many great coders on this board that would love to work with you on resurrecting the code. How do you feel about a return to the Amiga scene. WinUAE is a fantastic way back in! Have you tried it? Hope that you keep in touch, regards all of EAB!

19 March 2007, 15:59	#27
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	No worries Trev! I cant match you for cars but when we get to travelling I aint far behind - Miami Dusseldorf Jersey Amsterdam London Dublin and Dubai with work this year! (Pharma Research). I find Wireless and WinUAE are my only saviours when away from home for long periods - I stay away from the fleshpots

19 March 2007, 18:03	#28
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	Have we enough here for AGTW entries?

20 March 2007, 09:18	#29
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	I found that MOD tracks for Enigma. In the Zone now.

20 March 2007, 22:52	#30
nujack Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Leipzig/Germany Age: 49 Posts: 458	Yeah - good news and an interesting background story !!! Let`s hope that Trevor can find the sources and that this game isn`t lost forever. That would be so cool if I can play it after 10 years on my A4000. Nice tunes ... Bye nujack

20 March 2007, 23:14	#31
CuLpRiT Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cheshire/UK Posts: 31	Mr Mensah! There u r! Ok, GOOd news is, I possibly have the odd bit of code, I have disk 1 of that game demo we took to London. Its the 1st version, just the loading and main title. I got the music, I got some or maybe all of Wade's gfx... The end of level baddies etc and some bobs/maps. And no doubt some 'bak&2' idea emails. The bad bit is im pretty sure i aint got the whole source. I mean, u must have given it in order 2 help create the scripts, but I have have tingly feeling a lot was lost during 1 of those wonderful defrag moments. It might take some time sifting stuff.... Hi people!

21 March 2007, 00:15	#32
dlfrsilver CaptainM68K-SPS France Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melun nearby Paris/France Age: 46 Posts: 10,412	Hi culprit, welcome

21 March 2007, 09:56	#34
viddi Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Germany Age: 44 Posts: 4,007	Hi Culprit!! And YESSS!!! Even a playable demo would be fantastic!

21 March 2007, 20:22	#35
CuLpRiT Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cheshire/UK Posts: 31	A side issue, but just an insight on how Mr Tout seems 2 think... Just noticed on his entry on AMP, Hes got a mod called doc disk issue #42... He doesnt seem 2 mind stealing and taking credit of other peoples mods. Maybe thats y he was so distrustful of any1 taking his code. (Even tho this game was completely recoded for optimisation. 1 reason 4 the name change. Franks code didnt mut the custard.) Look a this songdata. ..... -> by the art of lsd This little peachypack tune was my own. It was called 'tor!' Cheers Frank

22 March 2007, 00:50	#37
DDNI Targ Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 5,431	Welcome Leeroy! Damn!! Cheshire looks like an Amiga hotspot today!!!

22 March 2007, 01:23	#38
leeroy Posts: n/a	well lee does not use his anymore he just sits at his pc wishing Amigas won the battle of computers all thoose years ago. Any way lets hope Trevor will give me a go of his 360 in exchange for ago of my mini cooper fair deal I think

02 April 2007, 14:24	#39
StrategyGamer Total Chaos AGA is fun! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: USA Posts: 873	I will trade you my sister for just 1 playable level of this awesome sounding game!

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