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Old 18 August 2013, 17:41   #1
theugly
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USB joysticks to 9 pins converter?

Hi with USB Competition Pro joysticks widely available is there a adapter connecting them to an Amiga?

I suppose chaining an USB to PS/2 adapter with an PS/2 to DB9 adapter won't work?
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Old 19 August 2013, 11:13   #2
roy bates
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personally,i wouldnt go to all that trouble.

i would simply rewire it so it works as a normal joystick on a db 9 connector,its alot simpler.
it would just be wired straight through to the switches inside the joystick from the db 9.
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Old 19 August 2013, 12:20   #3
theugly
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Yes I was thinking the same. I bought a bunch of broken DB9 joysticks from ebay. When delivered I will replace the USB cables with the DB9 and rewire the buttons.
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Old 19 August 2013, 14:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theugly View Post
I suppose chaining an USB to PS/2 adapter with an PS/2 to DB9 adapter won't work?
It will never work like that. If you really wanted to adapt it, you would need to use a microcontroller that can work as a USB host and then toggle the Amiga joystick port's lines accordingly.

You do not want to go down that road, since the USB competition pro is already quite laggy, the added microcontroller will only make input lag worse.

So as said, just rewire the stick, or go to ebay and buy a classic competition pro for a few tenners.
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Old 19 August 2013, 16:02   #5
TomCrazy
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Like others have written here, it's not worth going through all the trouble of building a USB to DB9 converter.
USB uses a kind of serial protocol, while you could say that the DB9 on the Amiga works in parallel since it has one wire going to each trigger in the joystick.
If you were to convert the USB signals to several databits going into the DB9, you would need to use some kind of device that can decode the USB information and put it out in parallel, as different databits. A microcontroller like Jope is suggesting would probably work fine, but that is quite some heavy stuff you need to get into in order to get it to work. You need to to learn a lot of theory about how the USB protocol works (and that alone makes up for some heavy reading), then you need to program the microcontroller to perform the operation you want it to perform.
Even if you do succeed with this, there is probably going to be a lot of lag, just like Jope mentioned. A microcontroller is after all a sequential device.

What I would do in your case is to leave the USB cable on there and just solder a new cable in parallel with the USB cable. The new cable should have a DB9 at one end, and the other end (the one that goes into the joystick) should have their wires hooked up directly to the trigger buttons.
You can of course also remove the USB cable completely if you don't need it anymore in order to make more room for the new cable. That is all up to you, but I think hooking up the new cable directly to the triggers like everyone is suggesting is the absolute best way to go here.
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Old 19 August 2013, 17:39   #6
Lord Aga
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I read this in Thomas voice
Also, I happen to have one PC USB Competition Hro joystick. As soon as I catch some spare time (a lot of Amiga work already on the list) I'm gonna try and solder off its ugly PC cable and solder on a beautiful Amiga one. I'm not using it on PC anyway.

Alex
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Old 19 August 2013, 20:55   #7
theugly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCrazy View Post
Like others have written here, it's not worth going through all the trouble of building a USB to DB9 converter.
USB uses a kind of serial protocol, while you could say that the DB9 on the Amiga works in parallel since it has one wire going to each trigger in the joystick.
If you were to convert the USB signals to several databits going into the DB9, you would need to use some kind of device that can decode the USB information and put it out in parallel, as different databits. A microcontroller like Jope is suggesting would probably work fine, but that is quite some heavy stuff you need to get into in order to get it to work. You need to to learn a lot of theory about how the USB protocol works (and that alone makes up for some heavy reading), then you need to program the microcontroller to perform the operation you want it to perform.
Even if you do succeed with this, there is probably going to be a lot of lag, just like Jope mentioned. A microcontroller is after all a sequential device.

What I would do in your case is to leave the USB cable on there and just solder a new cable in parallel with the USB cable. The new cable should have a DB9 at one end, and the other end (the one that goes into the joystick) should have their wires hooked up directly to the trigger buttons.
You can of course also remove the USB cable completely if you don't need it anymore in order to make more room for the new cable. That is all up to you, but I think hooking up the new cable directly to the triggers like everyone is suggesting is the absolute best way to go here.
Nice to read info thanks

I will remove the USB board and cable completely to solder the stick onto a DB9 cable.

I was thinking to save the USB boards for a possible future MAME emulator with custom arcade parts in a cabinet

Is it confirmed though that the USB controllers comming from Competition Pro USB controllers are laggy? Thats a bit a bummer then for MAME or any emulator on PC
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Old 19 August 2013, 20:56   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
I read this in Thomas voice
Also, I happen to have one PC USB Competition Hro joystick. As soon as I catch some spare time (a lot of Amiga work already on the list) I'm gonna try and solder off its ugly PC cable and solder on a beautiful Amiga one. I'm not using it on PC anyway.

Alex
haha you know eachother? Sweden and Serbia seems miles away
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Old 19 August 2013, 22:04   #9
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There's no distance that could keep Amigans apart
Thomas is like an Amiga tech bible to me
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Old 21 August 2013, 15:36   #10
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When I sold my last Amiga which I've lived to regret,
I had a Star Cursor joystick left for MAME, so I went the other way,
and destroyed a $15AU USB joypad to use it's guts in the Star Cursor.

It was great, but then I made a killing with it on eBay, and regret that too.
This is the actual photo I used to sell it.
It would be great with WinUAE

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Old 30 August 2013, 11:16   #11
theugly
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Anyone knows about the +5v lines?

In official Hired Guns manual there is written to swap lines 5 and 7 for getting 3 buttons on the Amiga. Standard on 9 pins the +5v is line 7 but on Sega Megadrive it's line 5.

But doesn't that hurt our computers?

There are more games who support at least 2 buttons. Flashback even 4 with a gravis pad apperantly. Anyone has schematics? This would really fit me now as I am about to solder 9 pin cable onto an USB Competition Pro which has 4 buttons.

here are the links i found so far:
Hired Guns page 6 'joypad controls' http://psygnosisamiga.free.fr/games/...tructions2.pdf
Amiga pin layout http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/...ck_Amiga_9_pin
Sega pin layout http://pinouts.ru/Game/genesiscontroller_pinout.shtml
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Old 30 August 2013, 12:11   #12
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Originally Posted by theugly View Post
But doesn't that hurt our computers?
NOT doing it has the potential to hurt your computer.

Here's an explanation why they recommend swapping the two lines at the megadrive pad.
http://eab.abime.net/895939-post15.html
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Old 30 August 2013, 12:46   #13
theugly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
NOT doing it has the potential to hurt your computer.

Here's an explanation why they recommend swapping the two lines at the megadrive pad.
http://eab.abime.net/895939-post15.html
Thank you! Why Sega even swapped voltages is really odd :S

Do Amiga joysticks even need +5v? for 'normal' use. Just buttons, no auto-fire and so.
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Old 30 August 2013, 12:59   #14
hooverphonique
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Originally Posted by theugly View Post
Do Amiga joysticks even need +5v? for 'normal' use. Just buttons, no auto-fire and so.
no.. just ground.. the signals have internal pull-ups..
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Old 30 August 2013, 13:56   #15
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Autofire usually needs +5V. I don't think I've ever encountered one that draws its operating voltage from a signal pin.
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