It's a Knockout! 2019/20 Quarter Final: Deluxe GalAGA

[john4p]

Yes, once you have a good weapon you must play in a way that minimizes the risk of collecting another weapon, skull or question mark.
You're on the right track. Just need to put it all together now. And some luck with money and armor pickups on the way doesn't hurt.

[john4p]

5,270,965

Almost the same score as in the league round.
During this play I've remembered something immensely useful: it pays to have full lives. Then with every extra life you buy you get armour instead. So only $400 for armour when you have 4 extra lives.

[malko]

Was wondering where had been the 'heart' that I got from an enemy. Maybe in an armour as well then.

Thanks for the tip John

And my tonight's go : 5'751'300.

[john4p]

Nice! Now you're almost on lifeschool's level. Will be an interesting battle.

[malko]

lifeschool's level so far is ' 0 '

The main reasons I keep training, is to minimize the sledgehammer blow he's going to give me when he will post his score. I don't forget that he made +17M during the Deluxe GalAGA round. But regarding my actual score I still have to keep training...

[john4p]

Well, his 17M score was without the new rule "only 3 money ships" so maybe he won't get anywhere near this and you're already on his (skill) level now. On Lemon he said he's aiming for a 4M-score (?).

[malko]

For sure you know it, but even with this rule, there is still some possibilities to get some more money during the game.
Of course, not as easy to get it as with the money ship, but still a possibility if you have good weapon.

[lifeschool]

Originally Posted by john4p

Well, his 17M score was without the new rule "only 3 money ships" so maybe he won't get anywhere near this and you're already on his (skill) level now. On Lemon he said he's aiming for a 4M-score (?).

Try again. Every dog has his day, and with this game I feel like Wolfadawn playing Llamatron. I guess you can say Im good with this one.

John, can you post your highscore tables in your screenshots please. This shows what mode you are playing and is a rule of the round. I had to double check my mode when I got the 18M, so its good had recorded it.

[john4p]

Good job Dan. Okay, that's quite a tough nut to crack now malko...

Originally Posted by malko

Never managed to destroy the left one. Good to know it's possible (and worth it).

[MikeyG]

@malko Thanks for the tips. Yet to destroy any of them so far

[lifeschool]

I never managed to destroy a single Laser ship in a game from 1995-present, until last night. The ship has to stop on the screen, and as it stops, this gives a bigger chance of destruction. If its stops twice or more, this makes it possible with the normal plasma.

If you have the War 1 plasma, its still not possible to destroy it, even with 100% contact while on the screen, if the ship doesnt stop. So its the duration of the stops which matter.

[john4p]

14,493,565

Managed to destroy a laser ship now, too, for the first time. But with the War I Plasma...I think fully upgraded it's superior to the normal Plasma.

Regardless whether it's a skill game or not it's hella fun once you manage to get full armour and Plasma with autofire. Edgar Vigdal made this world a slightly better place with this game.

[lifeschool]

14M by level 61? I was on less than 5M by that point. Did you get the 10M bonus, or perhaps loop the ranks x10 times? Did you milk the hurry up ships for ranks?

I suppose I should have made it a rule not to milk the hurry up ships or use the extra rank trick, as then its less about luck or skill but simply buying a big score, and it becomes a war of who can milk the rank loops most.

Yes the War 1 is very under-rated, and its good we finally unlocked most of the secrets in this game at last. Very well deserved 1st on the PD hall of Fame.

edit: If we awarded 1M for every level reached, it would reward progress, and players can milk as much as they like, within reason. That would put you on 75+M and me on around 140M?

[john4p]

Yep, that's exactly what I did (milking hurry up ships). Gotta apply the secret knowledge I've acquired about this game. Being limited to only 3 money ships is hard enough already.

Unfortunately it's too late for any rule changes I'm afraid.

[malko]

I don't want any player to be disqualified, but I thought that ANY KIND of milking was forbidden ?...
Or is it only when stated so in the opening post ?


Edit: In fact, if I understood correctly, what John has done is a bonus so designed by the coder and thus is not milking...

[capehorn]

2,648,700

[john4p]

Originally Posted by malko

I thought that ANY KIND of milking was forbidden?

We differentiate between "milking" and "leeching".
Leeching is something that can be done indefinitely and is always forbidden.

Milking means you can't do it forever because of e.g. a time limit. That is usually allowed unless it's specifically stated - in "vegan" rounds it's forbidden (like Turrican games because there you just have too much time).

So milking is okay for most games. But what I do here is just making sure I have all 6 rank markers every 4 levels, a mild form of milking and one of the intended gameplay secrets implemented by the creator: each hurry up-ship always yields a rank marker that you need.

[lifeschool]

Milking is allowed but sometimes comes under the grey area of the gentlemans agreement. Technically, milking is 'using a trick to farm materials or score within a time limit or limited opportunity', while leaching is doing this without a time, or doing it for ages. Both involve either stopping or being delayed in game progression while they do it, rather than playing on.

With a turrican game, the garbage in the wind tunnels could be farmed for the duration of the time limit, the player then dies and continues to farm score for the next 3 lives, and gets a massive score by level 2. This would be leeching, even though it has a time limit, spending 5mins milking score is seen as an unfair advantage over those who play normally.

With Deluxe Galaga, you would have to go out of your way to wait for the hurry up ships, and also wait around for the money ship. This is part of the game but extends the duration of play beyond normal. So a level which can be cleared in 5-10 seconds normally would take 4 mins as you wait around for various ships. This is milking and doing this deliberately to milk is farming.

I say with all these milking opportunities, either everyone does it or nobody does it, or we agree that progress is worth more score. With this game, its not a pushover like most games we play, and gradually gets harder and relies more on skill. Normally we would give a bonus for finishing the game, as those who complete it obviously deserve something, either with lives remaining or just an arbitrary completion bonus. With DG, you do get a cut scene at level 75 with game complete, before it loops. After the loop the game is a breeze, so getting to later levels like 129 is not so hard to reach.

Seeing as nobody else has beaten all 75 levels yet, I say it would be more fair to go with Llamatron rules, and end the game at level 75, and players can milk all they want within this time. Limiting the time frame means that even with the delay of waiting around for ships, the total game time wont run on and on for hours, and there is a finite goal as far as farming. As John says, you get this award every 4 levels, so thats 15M max available if you complete the game to level 75. Thats only 21M (15M bonus, 6M from play) during that time, and everyone can have a fair and equal chance to get there.

Its never too late to change the rules if we all agree, especially as Im more than happy to go head to head in a milking challenge if thats whats needed.

[john4p]

To put things into perspective - here's "shmup-pro" TodaysForgotten's score from 2009:



He got more than 5 times my score while getting only 3.3 times as far as I.
Premisseth and xpect got even higher scores. The way it has been played by anyone has never been a problem in the past rounds so I think you're overthinking this.

But I agree that due to the shorter playtime stopping after 1 playthrough makes sense. I'd be up for this rule if everyone agrees.

[lifeschool]

Thats basically it. Yes. For normal rounds which take 3 weeks and players have lots of time, its possible to loop the game a few times and get a big score. I seem to remember at least one player looped the game 3 times in that round, but of course the levels also loop on the high score table. They also mentioned the cash peaks out at 99K, and the high score breaks at 99.99M.

As this is just a small Knockout, I think setting a clear goal of 75 levels is reasonable, as then we can see comparative play from everyone, rather than some players running off, and going back to the easy levels after looping, where score is too easy and hardly requires any effort or skill. Of course this would mean my playthrough and score would be invalid, but I can submit a new score from the footage I recorded. How about players can take a screenshot on level 1 (level 76), and this proves they looped the game once and have a score up to that point?