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Old 02 August 2019, 20:14   #1
lantus360
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Leander Copy Protection

Ive heard different stories about how Leander had a hole punched on the disk as the basis of its copy protection.

But ive never seen any physical proof of this. can someone show me some screenshots or better. a pic of your copy assuming you own an original?
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Old 02 August 2019, 20:44   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lantus360 View Post
Ive heard different stories about how Leander had a hole punched on the disk as the basis of its copy protection.

But ive never seen any physical proof of this. can someone show me some screenshots or better. a pic of your copy assuming you own an original?
It does not. This game use the Protec serial (long) track. the hole punched is a false story.
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Old 02 August 2019, 20:48   #3
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yep, i thought so. thanks for clarifying
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Old 02 August 2019, 21:47   #4
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I own it and there is no hole. Codetapper asked me to make a video spinning the disk last winter. Not seen is the bright light behind the disk. Only two hands and no holding jig didn't help much either. Of course the Captain's word is always good enough.
ftp://ftp:any@grandis.nu/~Uploads/clenched/leander.AVI
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Old 02 August 2019, 21:49   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clenched View Post
I own it and there is no hole. Codetapper asked me to make a video spinning the disk last winter. Not seen is the bright light behind the disk. Only two hands and no holding jig didn't help much either. Of course the Captain's word is always good enough.
ftp://ftp:any@grandis.nu/~Uploads/clenched/leander.AVI
Thanks Clenched
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Old 02 August 2019, 23:43   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clenched View Post
I own it and there is no hole. Codetapper asked me to make a video spinning the disk last winter. Not seen is the bright light behind the disk. Only two hands and no holding jig didn't help much either. Of course the Captain's word is always good enough.
ftp://ftp:any@grandis.nu/~Uploads/clenched/leander.AVI
The old-fashioned way, it's the real stuff !
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Old 03 August 2019, 00:09   #7
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Flak on the C64 had a deliberate 'dent' in the disk surface as it's copy protection!
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Old 04 August 2019, 22:35   #8
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The old-fashioned way, it's the real stuff !
I am dissatisfied with it. The max resolution for taking movies on my 2003 camera is 320x240. Scrap disk has hole pricked with a sewing needle, scanner lid left open and a flashlight placed on the window. In round numbers figure 3.5" disk 11" circumference 3/8" window would take 30 scans 12 degree intervals. With no reference points there's no way to prove the disk has been fully rotated. Flipping the disk and scribing a mark on the hub would work. But now there's no proof it's Leander disk.
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:32   #9
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Weirdly Jon Burton who worked on it says a laser was used:

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:34   #10
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Weirdly Jon Burton who worked on it says a laser was used:

[ Show youtube player ]
yes and it's bullshit
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:42   #11
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That's weird, what would he be gaining by lying in such specific detail ?!

I'm assuming the hole would be have to be bloody tiny due to the density of the data on the disk, a hole visible to the eye would've corrupted too much of the disk I would've thought.
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:48   #12
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I have Leander and I can confirm there is not any hole in any of the three disks. Checked against the strong light source, that would reveal even a tiny hole.

Unlike Clenched, I have a PAL version.

Last edited by Predseda; 05 August 2019 at 00:57.
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:51   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbpete View Post
That's weird, what would he be gaining by lying in such specific detail ?!

I'm assuming the hole would be have to be bloody tiny due to the density of the data on the disk, a hole visible to the eye would've corrupted too much of the disk I would've thought.
Jon Burton is full of crap, I have no idea why he posted that video, especially as he's been debunked quite comprehensively.

1). Its not even his copy protected disk system on Leander. It is 100% the same as DMA Designs protection system on Lemmings.

2). The protection track code and creation is by Psygnosis, and is on most of the Psygnosis games, Nitro, Shadow of the Beast etc, etc.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING about the disk system, protection other than the checksum check for a later level had anything to do with Jon Burton or Travellers Tales.
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:52   #14
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The game would have to be non Write protected for this to work?
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Old 05 August 2019, 00:56   #15
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The game would have to be non Write protected for this to work?
Yeah just been looking around the web and it looks like this was mentioned here about a year ago - http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=89662. So I guess the question is, why on earth did Jon make that video if it's just nonsense ?!

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Old 05 August 2019, 01:08   #16
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maybe it was used on a pre-release that skid row got hold of as that has platforms that can't be stood on.

theres also a US release might be worth checking does a IPF exist of this? - JOTD did the WHDload install supporting the NTSC vesrion. clenched version was US

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Old 05 August 2019, 01:39   #17
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I'm assuming the hole would be have to be bloody tiny due to the density of the data on the disk, a hole visible to the eye would've corrupted too much of the disk I would've thought.
I tried to think on the question of the size of the hole.

We can calculate what is the maximum that would create problems
The disc has a circumference (on the outside) of about 3,5*2,54*PI = 27,93cm
The rotation speed is 300RPM with 2us MFM cells, so 100000 cells (on Amiga usually a little more).
It is not difficult to have a gap of 5000 MFM cells for amiga disks considering that it writes all the sectors side by side.
This give us 27,93/100000*5000=1,396cm.

Ok ok, on disk inner tracks the circumference is lower and therefore the hole a little smaller.
And again, this measures an arc and not a straight line..
But yes, the hole can be very big

Anyway the problem at that point is not in the hole per se but the completely unbalanced and bent surface that would not allow a reading without errors.

In any case a visible hole is absolutely possible and tolerated (if the writing is done specifically, a hole by damage in random position is highly likely to create illegible data).
But for what? There is better method to make the same results (weak bits).
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Old 05 August 2019, 01:48   #18
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Now this laser is a new one on me. Imagine a lawn mower swath (track). The blades of grass represent the magnetized oxides. It's like saying an ant hole would influence how the grass was cut.
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Old 05 August 2019, 04:29   #19
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I thought the point of a laser hole would be to create a weak bit that would give differing results on multiple reads? It would of course also mess up writes.
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Old 05 August 2019, 10:46   #20
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disk format is the same as lemmings too (mfm). And at least Lemmings has checksums to see if someone tampered with the code (which triggers subtle bugs). Leander hasn't. Protection on Leander is a joke. Even for me (I suck at cracking)
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