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Old 09 November 2007, 13:56   #1
jtorrance
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Problems with WHDLoad on a CDTV

Hi!

I'm trying to use WHDLoad on my CDTV, but I had the same problem with every game I tried so far (Wings of Fury, Turrican 2 CDTV, Xenon II, Apidya, Hybris).
The game starts, the initial screen/logo is displayed, then the image freezes, while the music plays in the background. I can use the quit key to leave the game. If I try to start the game a second time, the CDTV freezes with a black screen. Sometimes the CDTV even freezes on the initial start.
I tried several options (chipnocache, noautovec, nommu, pal/ntsc), but the problem remained the same. I tried to free more memory by using addbuffers but I don't think memory is an issue here (see below).
It is very similar to the problem described in this (unresolved) thread: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=22166

The CDTV is outfitted with:
- 68020
- 2 MB Chip RAM
- 8 MB Fast RAM
- 1.8 MB Slowmem (BogoMem? I'm not an expert...)
- SCSI Controller with 2GB HD
- Kickstart 3.1 and 1.3

I tried to disable as many upgrades as possible, but it didn't work. In the end I only used the 2MB Chip RAM on a 68000 with Kickstart 1.3. The SCSI controller has to be active all the time, since I need the HD. The CDROM has to be active since the SCSI controller depends on the CDTV-only stuff.

Are there any CDTV-related problems known, or is there at least anyone who can confirm/deny that WHDLoad does work on a CDTV?

Thanks
Kevin
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Old 09 November 2007, 14:16   #2
killergorilla
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Do you have a keyfile?
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Old 09 November 2007, 15:29   #3
jtorrance
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Hi!

None that I know of. I just downloaded whdload from its website. Do I need one?

Thanks
Kevin
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Old 09 November 2007, 15:45   #4
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You don't "need" a keyfile but you should register if you haven't. Trouble will find you quickly though if you are using a "borrowed" keyfile
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Old 09 November 2007, 15:50   #5
killergorilla
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The reason I asked was because sometimes you get similar problems if you are using a dodgy keyfile but as you aren't I can't help!

Sorry!
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Old 09 November 2007, 15:58   #6
jtorrance
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OK, thanks anyway. I will gladly register, as soon as it works. At the moment it doesn't make too much sense to pay. Except for the reason that the nag screen is really becoming annoying since I have to
1. Boot
2. Start game
3. Wait for nagscreen
4. See game crash
5. Goto 1

Where 3 is the one that takes the longest

So is there nobody who ever tried to use whdload on a CDTV?

Kevin
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Old 09 November 2007, 16:03   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtorrance View Post

So is there nobody who ever tried to use whdload on a CDTV?

Kevin
Yes, me, but cant help. I was actually considering these days to get a 68010 for mine, hoping that it would fix something. But seeing that yours with 020 does the same, I wont be getting one...

I've given up on this, let me know though if you manage to get something working.
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Old 09 November 2007, 16:19   #8
jtorrance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrZammler View Post
Yes, me, but cant help. I was actually considering these days to get a 68010 for mine, hoping that it would fix something. But seeing that yours with 020 does the same, I wont be getting one...

I've given up on this, let me know though if you manage to get something working.
So you are having the exact same problem on a CDTV? Well so at least we know that it is very probably a problem with the CDTV. Next week I'll try some other stuff like booting WHDLoad from a floppy with the CDROM disabled. In that configuration the CDTV should behave like a normal A500. If that works it should be pretty clear that it is the cdrom driver causing the problems. Maybe the developers can find a way around this problem.
Dont't give up hope

I'm surprised that so few people tried using WHDload on a CDTV. There is practically no information available on the net for this configuration.

Kevin
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Old 09 November 2007, 16:43   #9
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Oh I forgot, there is somtimes another symptom. After starting WHDLoad the Floppy starts to rattle and the CDTV's power LED blinks with the exact same 'rhythm' as the floppy rattles. After that some graphic and sound artifacts appear and that's it.

Kevin
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Old 10 November 2007, 21:34   #10
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I have no CDTV for testing.
Because WHDLoad requires Kick2.0 and the CDTV has factory Kick1.3, I think there are less people who have ever tried it.
Quote:
The game starts, the initial screen/logo is displayed, then the image freezes, while the music plays in the background. I can use the quit key to leave the game. If I try to start the game a second time, the CDTV freezes with a black screen. Sometimes the CDTV even freezes on the initial start.
This sounds like an Interrupt problem.
It would be interesting to see the Interrupts window output of Scout here.
You may try the WHDLoad option ReadDelay=200.
You should also try other games, especially some which use kickemu.

If you have a floppy drive, take a small game/demo and make a bootable floppy and start whdload from the floppy booted. That could show if the cd/scsi is the problem.
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Old 12 November 2007, 15:51   #11
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Hmm, you also have a 2GB disk? You could then disable the onboard cdrom with a jumper somewhere I think:

"To do this, open the CDTV up, and remove the jumper on JP15, which is nearthe front centre of the CDTV. Removing this jumper disables the CDTV functions,placing it on the left two or right two pins (it doesn't matter which) will enable the CDTV functions. "

Check if games work then, so it should indicate a problem with the cd rom drive functions.
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Old 12 November 2007, 16:06   #12
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Originally Posted by MrZammler View Post
Hmm, you also have a 2GB disk? You could then disable the onboard cdrom with a jumper somewhere I think:

"To do this, open the CDTV up, and remove the jumper on JP15, which is nearthe front centre of the CDTV. Removing this jumper disables the CDTV functions,placing it on the left two or right two pins (it doesn't matter which) will enable the CDTV functions. "

Check if games work then, so it should indicate a problem with the cd rom drive functions.
CDTV SCSI expansion's driver is in extended ROM that JP15 disables..
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Old 12 November 2007, 16:51   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
CDTV SCSI expansion's driver is in extended ROM that JP15 disables..
Oops, didint know that, thanks for the info.
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Old 12 November 2007, 17:24   #14
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Here is some techical information that may or may not help.. (I probably do more testing when I have time to finish my real CDTV upgrades.. It will become WHDLoad game machine someday..)

CDTV CD hardware uses interrupt level 2. It has 2 different interrupt sources, DMAC and 6525 ("Tri-Port interface", CIA-like io/interrupt controller chip).

Both probably needs to be disabled for compatible WHDLoad support.

I think CDROM drive can trigger "random" interrupts anytime, also DMAC status may need to be checked, CD driver apparently does some kind of prefetching (you don't want kill system when DMAC is still DMAing data)

I can post some code that disables, and also can re-enable them correctly, interrupts later.

DMAC is used by CD and SCSI expansion (basically makes it A590 but A590 driver does not work because CD is also connected to DMAC. CD drive is not SCSI)
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Old 14 November 2007, 18:09   #15
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Sending CMD_STOP to cdtv.device seems to disable 6525 interrupts, and CMD_START re-enables them.

Perhaps this fixes the problem (as long as DMAC is idle)
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Old 15 November 2007, 02:05   #16
jtorrance
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Hi!

Wow, what a discussion. Thanks for the feedback.

I found a game that actually works (even with CD enabled ) : 'Transplant'
I found two games that work only when the CD is disabled: Demo of 'Tensai' and 'Turrican'.

But all of them only work when the 68020 is disabled. Do other games that would normally run on an A500 need the 68020 when run with WHDLoad? If not I will have the upgrade disabled for all further tests.

All of these tests were done with an empty (non-existant) config file and no other options except the ones in the slaves' info files. I booted WB3.1, copied WHDLoad and the slaves to the ram drive, then started them.

I didn't have the time to test other games from floppy, but will do so tomorrow.
Maybe the current data (especially the game that works even when the CD is enabled) will help you identify the problem.

I installed Scout, but didn't actually know what to do with all the information. If you give me directions, I'll gladly help testing.

How can I send that command to the device? Sorry, if this is a stupid question, but I'm not familiar with amiga internals.

Thanks alot
Kevin
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Old 15 November 2007, 12:32   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Sending CMD_STOP to cdtv.device seems to disable 6525 interrupts, and CMD_START re-enables them.

Perhaps this fixes the problem (as long as DMAC is idle)
Thanks for the info Toni. I will create a test version which includes that.
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Old 15 November 2007, 13:05   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtorrance View Post
I found a game that actually works (even with CD enabled ) : 'Transplant'
I found two games that work only when the CD is disabled: Demo of 'Tensai' and 'Turrican'.

But all of them only work when the 68020 is disabled. Do other games that would normally run on an A500 need the 68020 when run with WHDLoad? If not I will have the upgrade disabled for all further tests.
All OCS games should work on a 68000 if not stated otherwise in the ReadMe. But as all devs use a 68020+, therefore installs are usually not tested on a 68000...
Quote:
All of these tests were done with an empty (non-existant) config file and no other options except the ones in the slaves' info files. I booted WB3.1, copied WHDLoad and the slaves to the ram drive, then started them.
Running from RAM will make no difference, but ok if you use FFS.
You should try READDELAY as I already wrote.
Quote:
I didn't have the time to test other games from floppy, but will do so tomorrow.
Maybe the current data (especially the game that works even when the CD is enabled) will help you identify the problem.
The list of games which run/not is a bit short for that. But it can help if there is some idea where the problem is.
Quote:
I installed Scout, but didn't actually know what to do with all the information. If you give me directions, I'll gladly help testing.
Open the Interrupts window, press Print, select a file and post the contents of the file here.
Quote:
How can I send that command to the device? Sorry, if this is a stupid question, but I'm not familiar with amiga internals.
I dont know a tool which allows you to do that. I will add this to WHDLoad itself.

Also do the following:
Get http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/SetCPU and run
Code:
SetCPU CHECK 68020
I like to see if it brings "FPU Logic Error".
PM me a .whdl_register file. Make a Coredump for that with Transplant and EXPERT, DEBUGKEY=$xx (see docs).
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Old 15 November 2007, 13:24   #19
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But as all devs use a 68020+, therefore installs are usually not tested on a 68000...
Except for me
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Old 15 November 2007, 19:01   #20
jtorrance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wepl View Post
Running from RAM will make no difference, but ok if you use FFS.
I just copied the slaves to the ram drive to simulate the speed of the hd. I thought it was a good idea.

Quote:
You should try READDELAY as I already wrote.
I tried the READDELAY option when in CDTV mode and had no luck with it. When in non-CDTV mode all (three) tested games worked, so I didn't see a need for testing it.

Quote:
The list of games which run/not is a bit short for that. But it can help if there is some idea where the problem is.
I will test a few more games tonight.
You recommended to test games which use kickemu. Will that help diagnosing the current problem? Anyway, I'll test some if I find them.

Quote:
Open the Interrupts window, press Print, select a file and post the contents of the file here.

Also do the following:
Get http://aminet.net/package/util/misc/SetCPU and run
Code:
SetCPU CHECK 68020
I like to see if it brings "FPU Logic Error".
PM me a .whdl_register file. Make a Coredump for that with Transplant and EXPERT, DEBUGKEY=$xx (see docs).
Ok, consider it done.

...Five minutes later...

Oh, I hope the files aren't too big because at the moment I can't think of any method to get the data to my PC. I normally burn CDs on my PC to get data to the CDTV, but the other way... Well, I think I'll just type it. The interrupt list shouldn't be too big, but a coredump seems to be something that is pretty large... Maybe I have a nullmodem cable lying around somewhere... OK, however, I'll find a way, but it may take some time.

Thanks
Kevin
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