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Old 08 March 2019, 23:56   #121
wawa
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even this has already been discussed and explained. where were you? so we really need to talk the same stuff over and over?
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Old 08 March 2019, 23:57   #122
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So it's Jens that is the the Satanic Amiga Mafia this time? He's suing Cloanto to get them to stop distributing the old version of P96, and if he doesn't win he's going to leave the market? For what? 25 cents of every sale that Cloanto makes?
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Old 09 March 2019, 01:29   #123
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
Speaking of GPL licenses, correct me if I am wrong, but they are viral in essence.

Then how can Cloanto sell Amiga Forever and have WinUAE code used but not put the source code of the entire Amiga Forever player in source form?

I only see the WinUAE code in their website, not the player thing. Which as far as I understand, this is not legal.

Am I wrong in this?
It depends on how (if) they are linked together.

It gets hazy, but if they communicate through public interfaces, for example but not limited to stdin/stdout/stderr and don't link together, then they don't have to both be GPL.

They also only have to make GPL'ed source available to people they distribute to (whether the binary was paid for or given freely) and they only have to make it available for up to 3 years from distribution and on request. It doesn't have to be on the website for everyone forever.

If you bought from them in the last three years and it's GPL'ed, then they are required to give it to you on request.
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Old 09 March 2019, 01:49   #124
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Can't believe that people still defend these Italian patent trolls. They did one good program in the past, Personal Paint. The rest they do is using other peoples work to earn money. THE most obsolete company since more than 20 years in the Amiga scene.
This. I love PPaint, but even PPaint is nowadays handled not by Cloanto, but by AEon.
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Old 09 March 2019, 01:50   #125
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Originally Posted by Korodny View Post
Making money of out rights you bought is a completely legit business model. But yes, Cloanto are building "something new" aswell: according to the PR for Amiga Forever 8, the emulator distribution now contains 600K lines of code written by Cloanto.

Amazing, 600K lines of code for an emulator... wow... the innovation! A you serious? Emulating old hardware is not something new, quit your bs. Re-packaging the same emulator over and over again isn't something new either, the end result is always the same : emulating an old machine running an old OS for which they bought the license years ago. They continue to leach that, nothing else.

Producing a real AmigaOS update is something new (e.g. 3.1.4), producing new hardware for our old machines is something new, designing ways to replace ICs that are not manufactured anymore is something new...
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Old 09 March 2019, 01:52   #126
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even this has already been discussed and explained. where were you? so we really need to talk the same stuff over and over?
We were buying new hardware (from iComp etc), restoring old machines, finding ways to keep the machine alive, and having fun.
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:08   #127
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Anyone that has ever bought any of his products.
As opposed to buying WinUAE?
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:10   #128
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Originally Posted by roondar View Post
I keep hearing 'better hardware at lower prices'. Honestly, I just don't see it.

Perhaps I'm missing some obvious targets here, but most Amiga hardware seems to be similarly priced (if you get roughly the same stuff) or if it's clearly cheaper than the competition, it's almost always obviously inferior in some way.

That isn't to say that IC is cheap. Just that almost all retro hardware is expensive and Amiga stuff seems to be no exception here.
Jens introduced the ACA line of A1200 accelerator cards after he saw that 20 year old plain memory cards rose above 100 € in price. He basically lowered the prices throughout the market.
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:14   #129
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I talk about Vampire and the future standalone devices. They replace most of Jens expensive hardware projects at a much lower price. Of course not everyone likes vampire and the ideas behind but it seems to me logical that it heavily affects his potential market.

And on another forum you say people disliking him wishing him to fall and that not shows good character but (as a developer) you should know that the way how people see you of course affects your chances in a market and Jens S. certainly was not very interested to be seen in a good light. As long as you have a kind of monopoly you can afford to do that but not if you have competition. And he is not alone in the "classic market" anymore, something he wanted to avoid obviously
You know that the Vampire teams has been kicked from a lot more forums than Jens has, don't you?

Jens may not be likeable, but he also doesn't offend as many people as the Apollo core team, who are now relegated to their own forum because they are no longer welcome in other forums.
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:28   #130
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Was I mistaken about above, on this page about what this particular kerfuffle is about?
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:35   #131
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Originally Posted by Amon_RA View Post
...and having fun.
so simply keep it up. the answer has nevertheless been provided above by someone else..
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:42   #132
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
You know that the Vampire teams has been kicked from a lot more forums than Jens has, don't you?

Jens may not be likeable, but he also doesn't offend as many people as the Apollo core team, who are now relegated to their own forum because they are no longer welcome in other forums.
gunnar may not always have been diplomatic, but considering the accusations he has been exposed to, particularly by jens schoenfeld, but also by others who align with him, it wasnt funny. i remember also majsta vaguely hinting at some unpleasant experience with amiga hardware monopolists whoever it may be.

again, im not trying to side with anybody, but sounds like you have not been witness to these occurences. its a pity if jens or anybody else chooses to leave, but its up to him.
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:50   #133
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Originally Posted by Amon_RA View Post
Producing a real AmigaOS update is something new (e.g. 3.1.4), producing new hardware for our old machines is something new, designing ways to replace ICs that are not manufactured anymore is something new...
*If* Cloanto prevails in court over Hyperion, it is possible that the next version will be published by them. What you will do next?
Hyperion is not a developer of OS3.1.4, it is just a publisher. OS3.1.4 was developed by Olaf, Thomas and few more guys in their spare time and with no financial reward...
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:58   #134
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Originally Posted by Korodny View Post
(Cloanto) are obviously making money selling Amiga Forever, but that qualifies as an "actual product".
I can make Amiga Forever in a week. I couldn't make even an Amiga 500 memory expansion in a week.
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Old 09 March 2019, 02:59   #135
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
Technically, all parties involved are making money from the work of others, that's how buying/licensing the rights to property works.

Jens licensed what he thought was a legal license to distribute the OS and ROMs from Hyperion, so are his products not "real" products?
I thought he licenced his Kickstart and Workbench from Cloanto, not Hyperion?
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Old 09 March 2019, 03:09   #136
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I thought he licenced his Kickstart and Workbench from Cloanto, not Hyperion?
I thought Hyperion, but if I'm wrong I'll admit to it.

I can't point to a source on it at the moment.
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Old 09 March 2019, 03:11   #137
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From what i've read there are Cloanto sticker on the ACA 500 cards or the box.

edit: Ah ok, it was the C64 reloaded MK 1 with a Cloanto sticker.
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Old 09 March 2019, 03:14   #138
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
I thought he licenced his Kickstart and Workbench from Cloanto, not Hyperion?
Hyperion and Individual Computers Sign License Agreement

#6
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Old 09 March 2019, 03:19   #139
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Just a question. I'm sure that Jens is reading this thread that I've just found.

Jens, could you please tell something about all of this matter?.

I just think that this is the right place to post about it.
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Old 09 March 2019, 03:26   #140
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Whatever happens, it's all a bit sad.
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