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Old 08 March 2019, 08:19   #41
Steril707
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Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Karma. You can only rip people off for so long until something like this happens. I hope they bankrupt him.
Who did Jens "rip off"?
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Old 08 March 2019, 08:31   #42
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What I know is you can't afford to lose individual computers. Its the only company that gives professionally made stuff without barking on YouTube videos or trolling on forums. That Aca500+ card was a good deal, 120€ for accelerated CPU, IDE, memory, kickstarts, ability to use A1200 cards and more. That was an absolute steal at that price.
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Old 08 March 2019, 08:51   #43
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All of Jens' recent hardware has been fantastic. The ACA1221EC is probably my favourite acellerator for the Amiga. It's reasonably priced and hit's the spot performance wise perfectly! There are a lot of users in this thread just spouting out one offs that seem ludacris to me, and not following up with any explenation. Are people just trolling or is that how poeple normally express their opinions? It's like smearing vulgaraties in shit on bathroom stalls.
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Old 08 March 2019, 08:57   #44
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The aca500plus is the best add-on for the A500, hands down. There are some great alternatives for speed, ram, processor, etc, but none better as an overall package.

I'm sure both Jens and Mike believe they're doing what is right and what is best for the Amiga community. We should lock them in a room with beer and not let them out until Cloanto have an updated P96 licence and iComp have kickstart distribution rights and everyone's friends again.
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Old 08 March 2019, 09:15   #45
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The aca500plus is the best add-on for the A500, hands down. There are some great alternatives for speed, ram, processor, etc, but none better as an overall package.

I'm sure both Jens and Mike believe they're doing what is right and what is best for the Amiga community. We should lock them in a room with beer and not let them out until Cloanto have an updated P96 licence and iComp have kickstart distribution rights and everyone's friends again.
What is right for the community about Cloanto going after iComp because they think, they get a financial benefit from a product that has been given away centuries ago on Aminet? Sure Jens made a newer version, but if you don't want to pay, use the old free version because it works perfectly. (Imagine you could ask 3 Euro's for each copy of P96 running...$$$$$$$$) The right thing for the community would be: leave it in peace. Cloanto is willingly looking for conflicts because they want money, they actively seek conflicts. Again, who does that benefit? the Amiga Users or Cloanto?

Cloanto has become an ordinary patent troll.

Last edited by Syntrax; 08 March 2019 at 09:21.
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Old 08 March 2019, 09:44   #46
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That isn't at all what happened - cloanto thought they had a licence to distribute P96, iComp disagreed, chaos ensued. That's not patent trolling from either side.
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Old 08 March 2019, 09:46   #47
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Originally Posted by Overmann View Post
There are a lot of users in this thread just spouting out one offs that seem ludacris to me, and not following up with any explenation. Are people just trolling or is that how poeple normally express their opinions? It's like smearing vulgaraties in shit on bathroom stalls.
It seems to be a relatively recent thing for eab, I don't remember it being like this a few years ago. Someone will stick in a vicious one liner, passing off opinion as widely accepted fact. To answer your question, I don't think they are trolling, I think this is just how they express their opinions.
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Old 08 March 2019, 10:44   #48
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I have tons of IComp products. The early stuff was the best and most useful. Buddha, CatWeasel cards (I have all three) etc. The later stuff I bought has been ridden with problems though, Keyrah2 was straight out a huge disappointment.
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Old 08 March 2019, 10:59   #49
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Once Hyperion are gone I'm sure you'll see a lot more development from Cloanto when they can conduct business unencumbered by threats.
Yeah, moar UAE repackaging plx!
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Old 08 March 2019, 11:05   #50
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Maybe Cloanto should just dump all retro related activities and Toni Wilen should just stop all development of WinUAE. Then there would be just Hyperion, and everyone would be happy.
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Old 08 March 2019, 11:15   #51
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Then there would be just Hyperion, and everyone would be happy.
Wow, you really are obsessed with Hyperion, aren't you? Are you sure you don't love them deep down, but are ashamed of your feelings and so present them as deep hate at every possibly opportunity?
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Old 08 March 2019, 12:41   #52
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with all due respect, but where do you guys get that from that cloanto goes after individual computers, thretens them, or sues them or is otherwise acting as "patent troll" or whatever you are acusing them of?

for all i see cloanto just stands by their agreement they once entered and has documented it openly for audience to check. thats all.
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Old 08 March 2019, 12:59   #53
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Wow, you really are obsessed with Hyperion, aren't you? Are you sure you don't love them deep down, but are ashamed of your feelings and so present them as deep hate at every possibly opportunity?

A dubious lawyer and a white supremacist - what's to like?
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Old 08 March 2019, 13:01   #54
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What is always strange in such fights is that people all too easily are chosing their personal favourites and enemies, without possibly knowing each of the parties true motivations and nature.

There is an interesting choice in the "Similar Threads" tab down here: "Amiga scene vs. C64 scene".

If I would cite one personal key defining aspect of the "Amiga Scene", then it would be its inherently toxic nature due to its "we have once been god's chosen children" syndrome.

So much hate & frustration fueled by delusion going on here.
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Old 08 March 2019, 13:08   #55
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A dubious lawyer and a white supremacist - what's to like?
You really don't know when to stop do you???

Did you not read my recent comments in another thread: Has icomp officially given up on Amiga Reloaded?

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Right. Getting real tired of you accusing people of illegal activities / derailing every Vampire or 3.1.4 thread kolla.

I also know that another GM has only recently sent you a PM regarding the above but clearly you don't care and continue with your constant rubbish.

Final warning for you
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Old 08 March 2019, 13:14   #56
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I don't think it's a good idea to choose a side here (as in who is 'right' or who should 'win'). On the other hand, pointing out that you dislike IC potentially leaving the Amiga market over legal issues (regardless of who started what etc) seems perfectly fine to me.

In all honesty, I have no clue who is (legally or otherwise) correct, but I'd still hate to lose out on IC's products as I've enjoyed using them quite a bit over the years and am/was looking forward to their stuff yet to come. Legal wrangling between companies never works out for consumers. To paraphrase a YouTube tech lawyer I occasionally watch "there are no winners in legal disputes".

And that also goes for something as small as the Amiga market.
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Old 08 March 2019, 13:27   #57
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Can't believe that people still defend these Italian patent trolls. They did one good program in the past, Personal Paint. The rest they do is using other peoples work to earn money. THE most obsolete company since more than 20 years in the Amiga scene.
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Yeah, moar UAE repackaging plx!
They are not focusing their emulation business on owners of real Amiga hardware but people who once had Amiga or who like retro/emulation.
AF is easy to install and easy to use with legal licensed ROMs, OS and few games. Nothing wrong about it.
BTW if you check the readme file in WinAUE you will find also "Acknowledgements: to Cloanto for their Amiga Forever work"


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Originally Posted by Syntrax View Post
What is right for the community about Cloanto going after iComp because they think, they get a financial benefit from a product that has been given away centuries ago on Aminet? Sure Jens made a newer version, but if you don't want to pay, use the old free version because it works perfectly. (Imagine you could ask 3 Euro's for each copy of P96 running...$$$$$$$$) The right thing for the community would be: leave it in peace. Cloanto is willingly looking for conflicts because they want money, they actively seek conflicts. Again, who does that benefit? the Amiga Users or Cloanto?
Cloanto has become an ordinary patent troll.
In this one case icomp vs Cloanto, Cloanto is not the side looking for conflicts at all. They just defend their selfs and publicly showed their evidence.
Riddle me this. If Cloanto licensed P69 only for AF 5, why P96 authors never ever tried sue them for money in the past. There were at least 5 more major versions of AF till Jens bought the P96...

Quote:
Originally Posted by grelbfarlk View Post
While I'm not a fan of Jens, this is some serious bullshit. IComp produces some decent hardware and it's only Amiga users that suffer from Cloanto being the Satanic Amiga Mafia trying to shake down anyone actually producing anything.
Cloanto is not attacking icomp, they are defedning their selfs in this very case.


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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
With what? Software from other people? And Cloanto cleary has no hardware developer. The are a just a software company. I expect nothing from them. No matter what the juristic result of this hilarious nonsense is. Just for entertaining purposes what these "Amiga experts" have done the last 20 years.
Software from other people? AmigaOS 3.1.4. Hyperion. What's the difference.


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My gloomy view on this matter:
Cloanto is predictable. They want it all and try to get everything. Since all Intellectual Property is now in the hands of Cloanto (at least they claim that), they are free to do about everything with Amiga. Next targets on the list will be companies like Apollo Accelerators, Elbox and other organisations that make hardware for Amiga's because Cloanto has the the right to prevent organisations and persons to create hardware for Amiga systems, unless they pay Cloanto a license. Apple also does that, its common practice.
Cloanto will claim that their IP rights, also entitles them to asking for licensing fees effectively charging money for every piece of equipment made for and sold for an Amiga. Cloanto, this way, is ensured of a steady flow of income and they have no obligation what so ever. Just as Amiga Inc was in it, to drain money from the Amiga IP, so is Cloanto. We haven't seen the last court-case.
I have no idea what Cloanto's intentions are and they are for sure not that predictable as you wrote.
Actally having all the IP under one entity (and I am not saying it has to be Cloanto or anybody else) would be the best outcome of these Amiga wars.

BTW I think that choosing a side here yet is not a good idea coz it can make even more harm for the future.
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Old 08 March 2019, 13:42   #58
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I’d rather see Cloanto leave the Amiga scene forever instead of Jens. Cloanto is nothing more than a IP troll. Leeching off decades old IP made by others.
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Old 08 March 2019, 13:45   #59
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I have no idea what Cloanto's intentions are and they are for sure not that predictable as you wrote.
Actally having all the IP under one entity (and I am not saying it has to be Cloanto or anybody else) would be the best outcome of these Amiga wars.

BTW I think that choosing a side here yet is not a good idea coz it can make even more harm for the future.
It's too early to choose sides, but then: people on AEB choosing a side will not influence the chain of events. This is about money. Hyperion, Cloanto and others have invested money and they want to get a profit on their investment. They fight each other because they defend their own interests. If your interests are not big, and you've had it with Amiga and legal matters or you can't afford another fight, you can quit.

Having the IP for all Amiga in one hand is, indeed, a good solution because it would end the legal mine field that Amiga has become. Even if that company, then declares Amiga dead.
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Old 08 March 2019, 14:09   #60
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I don't think it's so much a case of people choosing sides as much as it is Amiga fans being sick and tired of seeing companies sit on Amiga IP's and doing nothing meaningful with it. And then when someone attempts to continue development on something they get attacked for it.
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