English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware > Hardware mods

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 24 May 2017, 02:46   #1121
grelbfarlk
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachyon View Post
Amiga OS can detect the difference.
But anyway, it's not as if there's ANY software that comes only in an 040/FPU version. More importantly the OS certainly doesn't care. The most you need for anything is 020/noFPU.

Having owned an 040/FPU Amiga I remember having to go way out of my just to find 040/FPU specific software. It's not common. Most often it's 68k and at best 020 optimized.

Either way it is possible to detect the presence/absence of an FPU from software and the libraries to trap fast math and do them in software already exist. They just need to be installed on Workbench.
For best gaming compatibility you probably want a TF530 anyway.

Plasmab, what about the possibility of re-hosting the 68000 in a socket on the TF540 with a jumper (you can install a switch wired to outside your case) that determines if the 68k or the TF540 are enabled at boot like a lot of accelerators did?
An awful lot of productivity software needed an FPU or ran unusably without one. Graphics editing and creation software mainly. As someone else mentioned it wasn't coincidence that 99% of all accelerators had an FPU slot or had a built in FPU (040&060).
grelbfarlk is offline  
Old 24 May 2017, 14:39   #1122
plasmab
Banned
plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,917
Quote:
Originally Posted by grelbfarlk View Post
An awful lot of productivity software needed an FPU or ran unusably without one. Graphics editing and creation software mainly. As someone else mentioned it wasn't coincidence that 99% of all accelerators had an FPU slot or had a built in FPU (040&060).


Why would you use an A500 with a home brew accelerator for productivity software? Or rather let me rephrase... please don't use an A500 with an experimental homebrew accelerator for productivity.... it will end badly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
plasmab is offline  
Old 24 May 2017, 21:37   #1123
idrougge
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 3,928
Hopefully people will get your message.
idrougge is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 06:09   #1124
kev
Banned

 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: usa
Posts: 103
just fyi you dont need higher voltage to have a stable overclock this all depends on many factors but many many chips can run many mhz higher on stock voltage many moto parts run fine overclocked with stock volts hell look at the 68hc000 or 68060 just depends on mostly the rev chip
kev is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 07:33   #1125
Acill
Tech Guru

 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Oxnard, CA
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
Which revision? I havent finished the firmware for 3 yet.
Ack! The boards I am having made are Rev 3 I think.
Acill is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 12:10   #1126
plasmab
Banned
plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,917
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev View Post
just fyi you dont need higher voltage to have a stable overclock this all depends on many factors but many many chips can run many mhz higher on stock voltage many moto parts run fine overclocked with stock volts hell look at the 68hc000 or 68060 just depends on mostly the rev chip

This is anecdotal. Higher clock frequencies need more power to switch faster. Motorola have under rated most of their chips but the 3.3V 040s are a big question mark. Are they under voltaged 5V masks? Or where they designed for 3.3V from scratch. If its the latter then we're golden. If it's the former then we're not going to get much of an overclock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
plasmab is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 13:04   #1127
plasmab
Banned
plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acill View Post
Ack! The boards I am having made are Rev 3 I think.


It's fine. I've got the rev3 booting. Just need to tidy up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
plasmab is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 21:45   #1128
Tachyon
OG Amiga user

Tachyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Edmonton/Canada
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by grelbfarlk View Post
An awful lot of productivity software needed an FPU or ran unusably without one. Graphics editing and creation software mainly. As someone else mentioned it wasn't coincidence that 99% of all accelerators had an FPU slot or had a built in FPU (040&060).
I don't think you know what "productivity software" means. Certainly you don't need an FPU to run a web browser, a word processor, a spreadsheet, Amiga vision, Scala etc.
The only popular software that needs an FPU is 3D raytracing software like Imagine or Lightwave. In all cases, "productivity" software runs from Workbench, as opposed to loading without the OS like a game, and therefore uses the standard system libraries, including the math libraries. In the case of a system without an FPU, you simply install emulation libraries which trap the calls to the FPU and emulate them in software on the integer unit.
In either case, I can't recall very much software that required an FPU, rather the opposite, some software offered an FPU accelerated version in addition to the standard version.

And let's be grown ups here. No one is seriously going to say that they are going to use their Amiga as their primary, daily computer for productivity tasks in the year 2017, but even if they were, they certainly wouldn't be using an A500 with a homebrew accelerator. Go buy an A-EON X5000.
Tachyon is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 22:00   #1129
Tachyon
OG Amiga user

Tachyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Edmonton/Canada
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
This is anecdotal. Higher clock frequencies need more power to switch faster. Motorola have under rated most of their chips but the 3.3V 040s are a big question mark. Are they under voltaged 5V masks? Or where they designed for 3.3V from scratch. If its the latter then we're golden. If it's the former then we're not going to get much of an overclock.
The MC68040FEnnV are made on a smaller process than the traditional 040's used "back in the day" so these are a new design at least in that they have been die shrunk, and that should allow higher clock rates without necessarily requiring higher voltages. The real question is how are they rating them. Is the 25MHz part a die shrunk 20MHz part? Is it the same part without re-rating? Are they tested and binned by clock? Who knows. I'm certainly willing to test overclock them given how cheap they are.
Tachyon is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 23:55   #1130
cabal
Registered User
cabal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: BA
Posts: 12
Is there a way to buy one already?

Last edited by cabal; 26 May 2017 at 02:21.
cabal is offline  
Old 25 May 2017, 23:56   #1131
plasmab
Banned
plasmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2,917
I am not selling them myself but anyone is welcome to do that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
plasmab is offline  
Old 26 May 2017, 02:18   #1132
cabal
Registered User
cabal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: BA
Posts: 12
Ok, lets see if that happens then.
cabal is offline  
Old 26 May 2017, 02:57   #1133
esc
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
I am not selling them myself but anyone is welcome to do that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hat's off to plasmab for being a person of integrity. The Amiga community needs more folks like you.
 
Old 26 May 2017, 05:30   #1134
grelbfarlk
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachyon View Post
I don't think you know what "productivity software" means. Certainly you don't need an FPU to run a web browser, a word processor, a spreadsheet, Amiga vision, Scala etc.
The only popular software that needs an FPU is 3D raytracing software like Imagine or Lightwave. In all cases, "productivity" software runs from Workbench, as opposed to loading without the OS like a game, and therefore uses the standard system libraries, including the math libraries. In the case of a system without an FPU, you simply install emulation libraries which trap the calls to the FPU and emulate them in software on the integer unit.
In either case, I can't recall very much software that required an FPU, rather the opposite, some software offered an FPU accelerated version in addition to the standard version.

And let's be grown ups here. No one is seriously going to say that they are going to use their Amiga as their primary, daily computer for productivity tasks in the year 2017, but even if they were, they certainly wouldn't be using an A500 with a homebrew accelerator. Go buy an A-EON X5000.
Yes lets be grown ups here, and not ignore the first point and only respond to the second point that many applications which had an FPU version were there because they ran unbearably slow without an FPU. At no point did I or anyone say that they were "going to use their Amiga as their primary, daily computer for productivity tasks in the year 2017". But the point is moot since Plasmab has stated that he was working towards 060 support and I wouldn't imagine that there is some design decision which would disable the FPU if it were available. In any case since his design is open anyone can extend the functionality to support the FPU if available.
grelbfarlk is offline  
Old 26 May 2017, 15:49   #1135
alenppc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Age: 39
Posts: 816
Guys, can I make a suggestion? Can we not argue whether we need or don't need an FPU? Everyone has a different opinion/need, but as far as I am concerned Plasmab can design whatever he likes, he's doing all this for free/fun and eventually you'll have the sources and later I am sure someone will modify the design to add extra features if needed.
alenppc is offline  
Old 26 May 2017, 15:59   #1136
wolfchild
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malta
Age: 43
Posts: 40
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenppc View Post
Guys, can I make a suggestion? Can we not argue whether we need or don't need an FPU? Everyone has a different opinion/need, but as far as I am concerned Plasmab can design whatever he likes, he's doing all this for free/fun and eventually you'll have the sources and later I am sure someone will modify the design to add extra features if needed.
Totally agree!
wolfchild is offline  
Old 26 May 2017, 17:05   #1137
Bprepared
Registered User

Bprepared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Cirencester, UK
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by plasmab View Post
I am not selling them myself but anyone is welcome to do that
I know it's only my 2nd post here (I only re-joined the Amigan fold about 2 months ago after 15 years languishing in the PC lounge), but I have followed your progress with great interest since I discovered your channel and I would like to dust off my soldering iron and produce your boards for the community.
My problem at the moment is that I currently only have later generation Amiga's (A600, A1200, and CD32) so wouldn't be able to test the TF5XX boards post assembly.
However, once I've got my holiday out the way (about a months time), and have a little additional cash available to invest in the A500 and components I will start in ernest as long as the demand is there.

I would just like to say that the way you have approached this project has been amazing, biting off just the right amount at each point such that you don't choke is the best way. I think there are a lot of people that should learn from this approach. Keep up the great work
Bprepared is offline  
Old 27 May 2017, 09:35   #1138
Tachyon
OG Amiga user

Tachyon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Edmonton/Canada
Posts: 73
So I suppose someone here with the skills should start working on porting the Berkeley SoftFloat libraries to the Amiga. ;')

http://www.jhauser.us/arithmetic/SoftFloat.html

You may need this....
http://aminet.net/package/dev/debug/FPSPSnoop

Last edited by Tachyon; 27 May 2017 at 09:44. Reason: added information
Tachyon is offline  
Old 27 May 2017, 17:25   #1139
TenLeftFingers
Registered User

TenLeftFingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ireland
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bprepared View Post
I know it's only my 2nd post here (I only re-joined the Amigan fold about 2 months ago after 15 years languishing in the PC lounge), but I have followed your progress with great interest since I discovered your channel and I would like to dust off my soldering iron and produce your boards for the community.
My problem at the moment is that I currently only have later generation Amiga's (A600, A1200, and CD32) so wouldn't be able to test the TF5XX boards post assembly.
However, once I've got my holiday out the way (about a months time), and have a little additional cash available to invest in the A500 and components I will start in ernest as long as the demand is there.

I would just like to say that the way you have approached this project has been amazing, biting off just the right amount at each point such that you don't choke is the best way. I think there are a lot of people that should learn from this approach. Keep up the great work
I agree 100%. Plasmab has done great work here and each iteration is impressive.

And, although I have an A1200 myself I'm excited to hear someone might be building these boards!
TenLeftFingers is offline  
Old 27 May 2017, 18:30   #1140
kev
Banned

 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: usa
Posts: 103
i have no problems in building boards for those that cant
kev is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Listening to Amiga music with too much treble makes it sound terrible! Foebane Amiga scene 4 08 October 2016 07:30
Terrible usb drive performance? lovinggames support.FS-UAE 5 11 March 2015 10:06
Broken MASPlayer - Terrible hissing. SS454 support.Hardware 8 17 November 2013 02:41
Accelerators pmc MarketPlace 9 04 November 2009 21:23
Problem with a terrible, simply effect! Camionsauro Coders. General 13 19 April 2009 09:53

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.22886 seconds with 16 queries