Why is the Amiga display not centered?

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Cammy

I use Composite, Scart and S-Video outputs and games are always aligned to the left.

To the left? Really? That's kind of a first, as all of us have the display swaying to the right.

[edd_jedi]

Here's a photo of mine, there is clearly more black space on the left as others have found. It's the same on any screen I use.

My only thought is that it was to ensure old fashioned CRT TVs, which often had rounded edge screens, displayed the entire picture. I remember the crappy old 12" TV I used to use with my A1200 cropped off quite a bit of that space.

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Akira

To the left? Really? That's kind of a first, as all of us have the display swaying to the right.

Surely meant to the right.

[Cammy]

Originally Posted by Akira

To the left? Really? That's kind of a first, as all of us have the display swaying to the right.

Sorry, I meant the screen's left, our right. When I am looking at my Amiga's display it is like her face, and the screen is aligned to the left of her face.

[mancity]

Im pretty sure this is an issue with nearly all CRT TV's in the PAL regions.

I have the same problem with all my old consoles. I have a SEGA Saturn and a 50/60Hz switch attached and if I switch from 50Hz to 60HZ whilst the machine is on, it self-centres.

[roy bates]

i dont think its just pal.

[edd_jedi]

It's not just CRT TVs either, my screenshot above is on a relatively new LCD TV.

I think it is Workbench itself that positions the screen like that. Some games run completely 'full screen' such as sensible soccer, and I've also noticed that some can't use that area for sprites, but can assign colours or textures to it such as Lemmings.

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

It's not just CRT TVs either, my screenshot above is on a relatively new LCD TV.

I think it is Workbench itself that positions the screen like that. Some games run completely 'full screen' such as sensible soccer, and I've also noticed that some can't use that area for sprites, but can assign colours or textures to it such as Lemmings.

yes i agree,i use mine on crt's and lcd's and its there in pal and ntsc.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

It's not just CRT TVs either, my screenshot above is on a relatively new LCD TV.

I think it is Workbench itself that positions the screen like that. Some games run completely 'full screen' such as sensible soccer, and I've also noticed that some can't use that area for sprites, but can assign colours or textures to it such as Lemmings.

When you use Overscan the effects are reduced but the centering is still off to the right. This is not a Workbench issue, this is an Amiga display issue.

[edd_jedi]

Perhaps not Workbench specifically, but I don't agree that it's a hardware issue/limitation. Otherwise as above how would Sensible Soccer and Lemmings (and probably lots of other games) get around it?

[k4lmp]

You mentioned overscan helps. I have never used overscan, but have wondered about it, what exactly does it do? Thanks.

[roy bates]

Originally Posted by k4lmp

You mentioned overscan helps. I have never used overscan, but have wondered about it, what exactly does it do? Thanks.

it increases the usable screen to fit the monitor in workbench.

you can move it about within the space with the mouse,and save the position.

[FOL]

Overscan is a great way to make the screen appear centred, I use it all the time to make my screen perfectly central (within workbench ofcourse).

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

I don't agree that it's a hardware issue/limitation. Otherwise as above how would Sensible Soccer and Lemmings (and probably lots of other games) get around it?

Well I don't think there's anything to agree with here. i am not stating my opinion, I am stating a fact.
The games you mention are also off-center. Here's a screenshot of Sensible Soccer where I have measured the width of each border.



The screenshot was taken in double-size but the proportion would still the same if I didn't double the pixels. As you see, there are blank regions on the borders so this is a game that doesn't go fully overscan (do any of them do? I would doubt it). and the centering is right-bottom oriented. it's NOT dead center and it never is.

On the CD32 version of Sensi, the centering on my TV is to the LEFT actually! I think from all Amigas I had the CD32 has the strangest centering and in most cases it is nearest to dead-center than any others (the INSERT DISC screen of the CD32 is perfectly centered and occupies all the way to the side of the screen with no border arounds it)

[jimbob]

I had some hassle getting an accceptable screen position for indiECS output to a VGA CRT. I ended up using the title pictures from Agony as a test screen to set my monitor adjustments. I'm not sure but it seeems to use every available pixel. Then I used overscan to get the best workbench position I could. I did find it weird that there is no way to use overscan to get the same screen position as the agony screen.

EDIT: added some pics, they're a bit dark sorry. Anyway, in the overscan pic you can see there is no way to move the WB screen further to the right without adjusting the monitor. But look at the agony pic, it will be chopped off on the right if I do this. So the game screen seems to be centred way over to the right compared to WB screen even with overscan.

Never noticed this years ago on my, funnily enough, AKIRA branded old TV.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Never noticed this years ago on my, funnily enough, AKIRA branded old TV.

I think this offset was OK with the CRT TVs, as someone said maybe they noticed nobody would realize this was off-center. but with today's more precise displays and emulation, the "issue" is evident.

[edd_jedi]

Sorry I should have been more specific - Sensible World of Soccer 96/97, and Xmas Lemmings 94. See attached screenshots. Sensi uses the entire screen, no borders, and Lemmings manipulates the border colour (just as Sensi makes it green in your screenshot) which proves it's not a hardware 'cut off.' See my screenshot a few posts up to see how Workbench looks, so you can see I'm not 'cheating.'

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by jimbob

Never noticed this years ago on my, funnily enough, AKIRA branded old TV.

LOL

Originally Posted by Akira

I think this offset was OK with the CRT TVs, as someone said maybe they noticed nobody would realize this was off-center. but with today's more precise displays and emulation, the "issue" is evident.

The offset was really annoying and noticeable by me and my brother. I used the A500 in about 3 or 4 different PAL CRT TV's back in the day, all of them had vertical and horizontal picture adjusters and as you said several posts before, we adjusted the Amiga image dead center and just forgot about it was not a real usability issue. When I started to use the A500 and other Amigas with RGB monitors, then I tended not to think about it anymore.

[Mick]

I'd guess it's just a timing issue.

To be honest I wish the original Playstation had done this because when that (and most other consoles of that period) was used with RGB scart on a CRT television the picture always shifted to the left, creating a black bar along the right and losing some pixels/overscan along the left, very few games had an option to shift the picture so it was either have wonky picture or suffer with poor RF quality.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by edd_jedi

Sorry I should have been more specific - Sensible World of Soccer 96/97, and Xmas Lemmings 94. See attached screenshots. Sensi uses the entire screen, no borders, and Lemmings manipulates the border colour (just as Sensi makes it green in your screenshot) which proves it's not a hardware 'cut off.' See my screenshot a few posts up to see how Workbench looks, so you can see I'm not 'cheating.'

Those are very interesting pics, thanks a lot. I do think your TV is special and handles the original CRT overscan in a better way than most widescreen TVs nowadays..