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Old 16 June 2013, 23:19   #181
Zak
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The Amiga, however, was different. It didn't just serve one purpose.
To me that´s what a home computer is in definition.

I want to make clear that I am mostly not against systems. My family had a Sinclair at first and I did not fight C64, just because we didn´t have one. That´s why I could have a Commodore Amiga later without losing my face.
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Old 17 June 2013, 09:07   #182
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To me that´s what a home computer is in definition.

I want to make clear that I am mostly not against systems. My family had a Sinclair at first and I did not fight C64, just because we didn´t have one. That´s why I could have a Commodore Amiga later without losing my face.
The point that I was trying to make is that the Amiga was a jack-of-all-trades computer, compared to everyone else at the time. And whilst I do say "jack-of-all-trades", the Amiga was very good if not better than its' competitors at the things it could do.

Growing up as a PC gamer in America, I have never heard of an Amiga until more than a decade after its' death. Surprisingly enough, it was only because of DOSBox that I even learned about the Amiga. Going to abandon-ware sites and getting old DOS games, I would learn that some games released for DOS were actually ports of Amiga originals (I once had Lemmings and Lotus 3 for DOS). And then I would be even more surprised that the Amiga originals always tend to end up looking, sounding, and even playing better than the DOS versions despite having, "256 color graphics and Sound Blaster support."

Likewise, most Americans that do end up learning about the Amiga will tell you something similar as well. "I've never heard about that computer before, until I stumbled upon it at random."

That just goes to show you how much Commodore failed at getting Americans interested about their products. The C64 sold well in America, but Commodore did little to nothing about promoting the Amiga back home. If a company can't do a decent job of promoting its' product to the general public, it's not the public's fault for not getting it. So we weren't really against most systems either. It was just a matter of not really knowing about it, until it was too late to even do anything about it.
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Old 17 June 2013, 18:35   #183
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The C64 sold well in America, but Commodore did little to nothing about promoting the Amiga back home.
This wasn´t much different here in Germany. I have never seen an Amiga 500 commercial on TV or an ad in a news magazine. The first Amiga comemercial that I have noticed on TV was for CD32 in the nineties. Of course there were shops around selling the Amiga, but would you buy it because of the Basic demo they had running with those little orange blobs flying around? No, it´s been "Mundpropaganda" ("Mund" like mouth), friends at school / university / work had an Amiga and you got in touch with it.

Edit: but one has to be the first at school to have one. If that never happens...

Last edited by Zak; 17 June 2013 at 19:03.
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Old 17 June 2013, 22:18   #184
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This wasn´t much different here in Germany. I have never seen an Amiga 500 commercial on TV or an ad in a news magazine. The first Amiga comemercial that I have noticed on TV was for CD32 in the nineties. Of course there were shops around selling the Amiga, but would you buy it because of the Basic demo they had running with those little orange blobs flying around? No, it´s been "Mundpropaganda" ("Mund" like mouth), friends at school / university / work had an Amiga and you got in touch with it.

Edit: but one has to be the first at school to have one. If that never happens...
At the elementary school I went to growing up, the computer labs were filled with either a bunch of PC clones or those 68k-based Macintosh computers that the school faculty would pay a pretty penny just to obtain. And if your parents needed a computer for work/home, they'll use an PC compatible since it was pretty much a required standard by that time.

Now why pay so much money for a bunch of computers that don't seem to perform anywhere near as impressive as the Amiga did? Compatibility and serious work. And it was more than just taxes and spreadsheets (although we definitely did a lot of that). The police used them to create databases of local criminals, the financial sector used them to plot trends in stocks and company shares, universities used them because they were well equipped to handle lab research, and much more. In America, the PC was truly used for tasks like that, because IBM was willing to throw a lot of support for stuff like that.

Would the Amiga have been able to do the same? I don't know, but Commodore really didn't do a good job trying to capitalize on its' capabilities. So what if guys like Andy Warhol and Penn & Teller loved the Amiga? The business world doesn't give a flying fuck about celebrity endorsements; especially if it's not relevant to their needs.

I don't think that "word-of-mouth" would've saved the Amiga back here.
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Old 17 June 2013, 23:06   #185
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At the elementary school I went to growing up, the computer labs were filled with either a bunch of PC clones or those 68k-based Macintosh computers that the school faculty would pay a pretty penny just to obtain.
Yeah, I always thought one of Commodore's biggest mistakes was not doing more to get Amigas into the schools....

I know a LOT of people who bought Apple II computers because that's what they had in school.

Commodore had an opportunity to get the market as they switched from Apple IIs... Super super cheap Amigas to the schools would have gone a LONG way to getting more Amigas in homes....
Yes, Apple had an "in" already, but cost and the video out would (I think) have been really really nice selling points...

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Old 18 June 2013, 09:08   #186
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Yeah, I always thought one of Commodore's biggest mistakes was not doing more to get Amigas into the schools....

I know a LOT of people who bought Apple II computers because that's what they had in school.

Commodore had an opportunity to get the market as they switched from Apple IIs... Super super cheap Amigas to the schools would have gone a LONG way to getting more Amigas in homes....
Yes, Apple had an "in" already, but cost and the video out would (I think) have been really really nice selling points...

desiv
So true, We had mac's and PC's and only 1 Amiga in the Media Studies lab for Video effects and titling etc for a High School of 1300 students!!
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Old 18 June 2013, 10:20   #187
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I had a 386, my friends had amigas, i would not had swapped it for an amiga no matter what; to be honest.
I don't understand why people hate the retro pc, although it was overall far superior than the amigas.
But today Retro Enthusiast want A1200's and not boring beige box 386 PC's.
Ugly, Soulless business machines with about as much charm as an angry pit-bull with an attitude problem

Yes some might say the PC was one of the factors leading to the demise of the 'original' home computer i.e ZX Spectrum, Acorn BBC, Amstrad CPC, C64, Atari ST, Apple MAC ( the original ones) and our 'holy' Amiga. Mainly because it did start to greatly outperform the old 8/16/32 bit systems....at a price!

But I stand by the fact that PC's (an even modern MAC's, which are overpriced INTEL machines using standard INTEL Hardware), have very little charm, warmth, personality or the ability to bring a smile to this, and many other Retro Enthusiast faces...nuff said!

PS Haven't we done this 'my machines better than yours' just a few times before?.....each to their own (but miggy is KING)

Last edited by fatboy; 18 June 2013 at 13:34.
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Old 28 June 2013, 06:52   #188
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Actually, thats not really true.

Oddly, the "retro/dos" pc is becoming as popular as any other retro machines these days.
Granted they dont command the sorts of prices something like an a1200 does, but thats not surprising due to sheer volume available.
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Old 28 June 2013, 17:22   #189
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I had a 386, my friends had amigas, i would not had swapped it for an amiga no matter what; to be honest.
I don't understand why people hate the reto pc, althought it was overall far superior than the amigas.
When I first played the Amiga in the early days the differences were obvious as shown below....I know the PC caught up fast ( Mainly Doom Nailed it )
But at first the amiga games were far superior

Test Drive on the Amiga


And on the 386

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Old 28 June 2013, 17:25   #190
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BTW....Love Dos games now
Obviously the 386/486 took a turn for the better
In fact you may like a few from my demo site of dos standalones ...

http://www.plymouthlaptopscreens.co.uk/RETRO/dos.html
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Old 28 June 2013, 17:30   #191
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Test Drive have also EGA mode.
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Old 28 June 2013, 20:23   #192
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I stayed with Amiga and got an 030 card from power computing when my mates were already getting PC's.

I kept hoping commodore could be rescued, shame commodore UK buyout was unsuccessful.

But when 3DFX Voodoo 1 cards came out and were supported by games like Tomb Raider thats when PC's really started gaining ground with gamers.

Shame nobody with deep pockets took over it would be great for Amiga to be a true rival again and not just being sold as re-badged and overpriced PC available currently.
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Old 30 June 2013, 02:43   #193
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Actually, thats not really true.
Oddly, the "retro/dos" pc is becoming as popular as any other retro machines these days..
I'm not convinced that's true..

Yes, there are some people who like DOS machines...
But many more use DOSBox (or GOG) and are quite happy with it..

I've mentioned this before (here or somewhere else?) but I think this is probably because the PC did continue. PC users don't have to look back on their old machines because they've had a "PC" the whole time.

With PC users, it seems to be more about the software and less about the actual hardware.

I love WinUAE and Amiga Forever. But I still need my Amigas. ;-)

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Old 30 June 2013, 07:02   #194
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I didnt say it on a whim. I said it 'cos its true.
Check places like ebay for retro pc gear. Youtube as well. More and more people are becoming interested in having a dedicated retro pc.
Dosbox is nice (although given that Ive worked on it (developed) for about 5 years I would say that ), but like most emulators its not a true replacement. Theres a lot of interesting stuff Dosbox, etc. simply dont do well, or at all. Dosbox goes for a common denominator rather than variety. Theres many games that are better on real hardware due to lack of support in emulators. 3dfx/glide emulation for example. It works, but its not the same as real hardware.
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Old 30 June 2013, 14:53   #195
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Lots of people are saying the didnt get an Amiga because they we're unaware of its existence due to a lack of advertising. Personally I don't remember seening hardly any advertising for the Amiga anywhere. I just remember going into SRS (a camera shop here in th UK) and seeing an Amiga with Shadow of the Beast running. I had a C64 back then in 1989. After seeing that demo I knew I had to own an Amiga (I brought SOTB with Tshirt for £35 before i even owned the machine and then it took a year to save for it at - Screen Gems pack £399). Surley there must of been Amigas being demonstrated in stores across the US?
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Old 30 June 2013, 16:42   #196
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Mainly Doom Nailed it
Unfair, Doom just started the FPS craze. If anything it was the combo of Doom and Command & Conquer that really elevated the PC to a big selling platform; for many years FPS games and real time strategy games were pumped out by the bucket loads due to those two games.

What "made" the PC as a gaming platform for me were such classics as Wolfenstein 3D, legend of Kyrandia 3, Dune 2, X-Wing, Warcraft 2, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld, the 7th Guest, Lost Eden, Sam & Max, Settlers 2, Jazz Jack Rabbit, Halloween Harry, Raptor, Mortal Kombat 1 & 2, Commander Keen series, etc. etc. Plenty of those games were targeted at 386 machines already, the rest early 486 machines.

As to having a retro PC - hell no. Dosbox is good enough, if not better due to its flexibility. There are only a few games I haven't been able to play using it. Games requiring specialized hardware such as Voodoo cards I don't consider retro and thus worthy of playing; they're from after the "golden days of gaming".

The "Voodoo" era is actually a time period where PC gaming took a turn for the worse in my book, when you would buy a computer it would be obsolete the next month! I took a breather for a few years and only played old games, it wasn't until Half-life came out that I bought a new computer. With the almighty Diamond Viper 550, what a card!

Few! Long story
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Old 30 June 2013, 23:29   #197
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I didnt say it on a whim. I said it 'cos its true.
Check places like ebay for retro pc gear..
Didn't say people weren't trying to sell them.
Just that I doubt a lot of people are buying them for gaming.

And there are some people on youtube with old PC rigs, but nowhere near the number of people with old Amiga's or Apple's, etc...

I know there are people doing it, I just don't buy it that it's happening a lot.

I know you believe it's true and i respect that.
I just don't accept it yet... I'm silly that way..

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Old 01 July 2013, 02:12   #198
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Lots of people are saying the didnt get an Amiga because they we're unaware of its existence due to a lack of advertising. Personally I don't remember seening hardly any advertising for the Amiga anywhere. I just remember going into SRS (a camera shop here in th UK) and seeing an Amiga with Shadow of the Beast running. I had a C64 back then in 1989. After seeing that demo I knew I had to own an Amiga (I brought SOTB with Tshirt for £35 before i even owned the machine and then it took a year to save for it at - Screen Gems pack £399). Surley there must of been Amigas being demonstrated in stores across the US?

From looking on Yoututbe, I am aware there were Amiga TV commercials in the U.S. but honestly, the only thing I remember seeing on Television was an infomercial (a 30 minute commercial) about CDTV and I only remember it being aired very late at night.
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Old 01 July 2013, 02:30   #199
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I think it was similar in here in Aus, I had never heard of Amiga until about 91 when a mate of a mate showed me his a500 running a demo and blew my mind with amazing graphics and stereo sound compared to my 4 colour CGA and beeps from the PC speaker!
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Old 01 July 2013, 04:23   #200
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What?
You guys didn't get Stevie!!!???!!??

...

Consider yourself lucky... ;-)

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