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Old 07 March 2019, 20:30   #21
lantus360
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Jens makes it very clear that he's leaving the market if Cloanto wins

I will watch this until mid-february 2020. If Cloanto has won any of the lawsuits that are currently going on, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me. If the lawsuits are still going on by then, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me.


Source - https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=972
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Old 07 March 2019, 20:49   #22
wawa
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what a drama omg.. so, if a commerial entity based o their business decisions and conflicts they chose to involve themselves with, throws the towel, they are in their good right to so do.

personally, even though i own a bunch of amiga stuff i but just only a single product by ic i would say, a big thank you for the time you have spent with us and good luck for your future endevours.

lets not get carried away with grief, somthing ends, something else begins, and above all else, even if i see no reason to aling myself with anyone in this or other matters, lets not start a witch hunt against whoever, who for all i care, may be simply trying to defend his business arangements, if done in a good faith. this is not our call to judge this but probably needs clarified in court.

in the meantime there is plenty to do in amiga community. people may need to take more actively part in projects to gain more control of the course of things, rather than sitting there witing for some saviour while begging and dreaming.
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Old 07 March 2019, 21:01   #23
utri007
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Because Cloanto didn't do Jens the favour and paid again for what they already paid 18 years ago?
Because Cloanto doesn't have any actual products? Unlike iComp and Hyperion has.
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Old 07 March 2019, 21:05   #24
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Because Cloanto doesn't have any actual products? Unlike iComp and Hyperion has.

Lovely sarcasm.
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Old 07 March 2019, 22:25   #25
roondar
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Originally Posted by lantus360 View Post
Jens makes it very clear that he's leaving the market if Cloanto wins

I will watch this until mid-february 2020. If Cloanto has won any of the lawsuits that are currently going on, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me. If the lawsuits are still going on by then, there will be no more Amiga stuff from me.

Source - https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=972
If this is his position, I predict a very high chance he will indeed leave.

For two reasons:
  1. It's highly unlikely court cases like this are finished quickly. Unless one side's claims are thrown out 'immediately', it can literally take years to finish even a moderate size court case.
  2. If I had to bet money on who's going to win in the Cloanto vs. Hyperion case, I'd bet on Cloanto. I am of course not a lawyer, but it seems the most likely outcome to me.
Which is rather sad, because Individual Computers has put out a lot of functioning, useful hardware. And, so far, I've not seen any real alternatives to that (note, this is not a dig at other hardware projects, merely at the difference in output rate and end user availability I've personally observed).

Doesn't mean IC is without fault, obviously, but overall I'd say IC has done/is doing a lot more good than bad in Amiga land.
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Old 07 March 2019, 23:10   #26
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My gloomy view on this matter:

Cloanto is predictable. They want it all and try to get everything. Since all Intellectual Property is now in the hands of Cloanto (at least they claim that), they are free to do about everything with Amiga. Next targets on the list will be companies like Apollo Accelerators, Elbox and other organisations that make hardware for Amiga's because Cloanto has the the right to prevent organisations and persons to create hardware for Amiga systems, unless they pay Cloanto a license. Apple also does that, its common practice.

Cloanto will claim that their IP rights, also entitles them to asking for licensing fees effectively charging money for every piece of equipment made for and sold for an Amiga. Cloanto, this way, is ensured of a steady flow of income and they have no obligation what so ever. Just as Amiga Inc was in it, to drain money from the Amiga IP, so is Cloanto. We haven't seen the last court-case.

So: AROS is the way to go. If you don't like AROS, consider MorphOS, very stable, very performant.
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Old 07 March 2019, 23:16   #27
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Doesn't mean IC is without fault, obviously, but overall I'd say IC has done/is doing a lot more good than bad in Amiga land.
I'd basically agree with this. I have good and bad stuff from iComp (IMO), but at least I have it. It will indeed be a shame to see someone go due to legal shit. People close up and go all the time for many, many reasons but that shouldn't really be one of them. It's not a big surprise though, what's left of the Amiga name, brand, etc. is a legal minefield and this was just waiting to happen to someone, if not everyone who gets involved. Again, my opinion only.

While all the legal Shenanigans annoy the hell out of me, and it appears from where I'm sat that Cloanto are the ones being unnecessarily aggressive while not desperately contributing anything, all the calls to boycott them are useless to me. I've never given them a penny and never had any intentions of starting to do so.

Any of my legal ROMs have been obtained from my own legal hardware and they have nothing else that I need. At least not that I'm aware of, and I guess that if I'm not aware of it then I don't need it
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Old 07 March 2019, 23:51   #28
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I'm not taking sides on the Cloanto vs Hyperion thing, but would be a crying shame to lose Jens, the icomp stuff I have bought in the past has all been excellent, and I was rather looking forward to some of the new stuff that was on the horizon.
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Old 07 March 2019, 23:59   #29
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I'm still hopeful for an Amiga Reloaded.
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Old 07 March 2019, 23:59   #30
roondar
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I'm still hopeful for an Amiga Reloaded.
I'd love to see one, that's for sure.
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Old 08 March 2019, 00:53   #31
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At the end of the day, I have no idea what Cloanto's intentions are with any of these law-suits, but if their intention is to secure all rights to the Amiga name, it's operating system and ROM's, then they better start doing something useful with it rather than sitting on it.

Instead of turning out only minor and useless yearly updates to a product that is essentially built on the hard work of others, how about meaningful and significant updates to Amiga OS and Kickstarts. Make it easy for others to obtain software licenses for their hardware products, instead of what we saw when 8-Bit Guy tried to reach out to them for one but was only met with silence.

Last edited by sean_sk; 11 March 2019 at 14:19.
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Old 08 March 2019, 02:05   #32
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icomp seem to have found themselves on the wrong side of the fence siding with hyperion and falsely accusing Cloanto. Best thing they can do now is try and get some compensation from the those who sold them P96 under false pretenses.

Shame they burned their bridge so publicly though - otherwise I am sure they could have worked well with Cloanto. Seems like icomp have a lot to lose when hyperion get called out on all their false ownership claims. I really think Jens should reach out to cloanto with an apology and try to save the situation. There is no reason they can't work well together if they bury the hatchet.

The quicker hyperion leave the scene the better as It seems cloanto are trying to act in good faith, but unable to commit to much while hyperion are still running around making threats and wild claims - signing up and licensing things they are not entitled to.

I really like the icomp hardware, as it just works and is well supported for the general public. I own an ACA1233 and indivision ECS, both great pieces of equipment, and I would buy again, despite my negative opinions of the way they conduct themselves (which is entirely their business and how they feel they need to be to operate). I know they need to price realistically because of all the people who hit them with false warranty claims and self-broken hardware.

I am glad there are opensource alternatives too for the tinkerers and so that there will always be hardware available for our platform.
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Old 08 March 2019, 02:20   #33
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Can't believe that people still defend these Italian patent trolls. They did one good program in the past, Personal Paint. The rest they do is using other peoples work to earn money. THE most obsolete company since more than 20 years in the Amiga scene. I don't want to defend Hyperion/A-EON, because i don't care what they do. They operate in a niche of a niche anyway. Still, very sad that the few major players in the Amiga scene can't act like grown ups.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 08 March 2019 at 02:28.
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Old 08 March 2019, 02:25   #34
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So: AROS is the way to go. If you don't like AROS, consider MorphOS, very stable, very performant.
I agree with this much. Especially now that MSchulz and Kalamatee are making big endian ARM AROS for RasPi 2 and 3 with a 68k compatibility JIT like OS4 has. Not to mention SMP included....
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Old 08 March 2019, 02:53   #35
dalek
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Can't believe that people still defend these Italian patent trolls....

Huh? Take a look at the court documents. Hyperion instigated the patent trolling in each case. They are the ones with the lawyers and legal threats, trying to squeeze the juice out of what's left.


It's only now that Cloanto are fighting back, and fighting back hard to put this to rest. Once Hyperion are gone I'm sure you'll see a lot more development from Cloanto when they can conduct business unencumbered by threats.
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Old 08 March 2019, 03:17   #36
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My A600 has an iComp A604. Apart from shipping with a very short-lived battery, it hasn't missed a beat. Thanks for the memory(ies?), Jens!
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Old 08 March 2019, 03:17   #37
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I'm siding with Jens, if he sets up a funding campaign I'm behind itt and will contribute.im so fed up with Amiga stuck in legal feuds since the Commodore collapse, especially when companies both depend on it and advance it.
Its sickening.
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Old 08 March 2019, 03:54   #38
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Karma. You can only rip people off for so long until something like this happens. I hope they bankrupt him.
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Old 08 March 2019, 04:02   #39
Retro-Nerd
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Once Hyperion are gone I'm sure you'll see a lot more development from Cloanto when they can conduct business unencumbered by threats.

With what? Software from other people? And Cloanto cleary has no hardware developer. The are a just a software company. I expect nothing from them. No matter what the juristic result of this hilarious nonsense is.



Just for entertaining purposes what these "Amiga experts" have done the last 20 years.


https://jonlennartaasenden.wordpress...-of-computing/
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Old 08 March 2019, 04:20   #40
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While I'm not a fan of Jens, this is some serious bullshit. IComp produces some decent hardware and it's only Amiga users that suffer from Cloanto being the Satanic Amiga Mafia trying to shake down anyone actually producing anything.

Perhaps jumping too forcefully to a conclusion.

Last edited by grelbfarlk; 09 March 2019 at 01:41.
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