Things the Amiga could do better than a contemporary PC

[buggs]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

Nice Workbench, man. Oh, wait...that's...that's...Word running on Mac System 8 or 9 running on an Amiga! You, you...magnificent bastard...

Well, running classic MacOS on an Amiga was something quite unique back in the day. Shapeshifter and Fusion allowed to run a second operating system in parallel to AmigaOS, pretty much as precursors to the VMs we know today and also years before VMWare emerged.



I used to browse stubborn sites on the Web using Netscape4.8 or IE4 while listening to music on the Amiga side. Other productivity software like Photoshop4 or Painter works just fine.



I've also kept my Amiga4000 useful for a while longer by delegating CPU intensive tasks to my Linux box whose X11 I redirected to my Amiga and whose storage I shared between these two computers by NFS.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by buggs

Well, running classic MacOS on an Amiga was something quite unique back in the day. Shapeshifter and Fusion allowed to run a second operating system in parallel to AmigaOS, pretty much as precursors to the VMs we know today and also years before VMWare emerged.



I used to browse stubborn sites on the Web using Netscape4.8 or IE4 while listening to music on the Amiga side. Other productivity software like Photoshop4 or Painter works just fine.



I've also kept my Amiga4000 useful for a while longer by delegating CPU intensive tasks to my Linux box whose X11 I redirected to my Amiga and whose storage I shared between these two computers by NFS.

The Amiga was and is, an amazing machine. I'm a computer hobbyist, as likely you are, and have been a computer hobbyist since 1978. As much as I like my Mac and great software like MP4Tools and Subler which allow me to keep my Movie and TV Shares in top shape, with transcoding and tagging (sorry, the best PC versions of these apps are ridiculously slow and cannot do the gymnastics with pass-through, AAC and AC3 6 Channel required by Apple TV), and the magnificent Audio HiJack for which again, there is no real Win 10 equivalent, I use my Amiga to relax and have fun and even get real-world work done while I'm at it.

After all, it IS a hobby and I cannot understand why this guy Vascillious seems so filled with impotent rage that the Amiga was and is, capable of so much the PC wasn't for so many years.

[babsimov]

To all, I have no further doubts from reading this from Vascillious, he is indeed Zarchos.

"Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person') is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious.

“ad hominem” is a typical argument on his part, not to mention “insults”.
I put a link to a subject on the French site Gamopat. You can see that Archieforever, one of the nicknames used by Zarchos on this site. As you see he also use the "ad hominem" argument. Don't waste your time with him, he's a huge troll.

https://www.gamopat-forum.com/t10898...rchimedes-3010

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by babsimov

To all, I have no further doubts from reading this from Vascillious, he is indeed Zarchos.

"Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person') is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious.

"ad hominem" is a typical argument on his part, not to mention "insults".
I put a link to a subject on the French site Gamopat. You can see that Archieforever, one of the nicknames used by Zarchos on this site. As you see he also use the "ad hominem" argument. Don't waste your time with him, he's a huge troll.

https://www.gamopat-forum.com/t10898...rchimedes-3010

I appreciate your input. However, I don't want this thread locked because it's a very worth-while thread just because of him, whoever he is. Sooner or later, a Moderator will resolve the issue.

[babsimov]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

I appreciate your input. However, I don't want this thread locked because it's a very worth-while thread just because of him, whoever he is. Sooner or later, a Moderator will resolve the issue.

I understand the subject is interesting as long as there is no troll.
My post was also intended for a moderator.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by babsimov

I understand the subject is interesting as long as there is no troll.
My post was also intended for a moderator.

I understand and I hope all our efforts make that point.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by buggs

I agree. Except one point:

I did prefer Word 5.1a, much lighter, responsive, ran in system 7 and it did also come with Word 6 and 97 filters!

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by saimon69

I did prefer Word 5.1a, much lighter, responsive, ran in system 7 and it did also come with Word 6 and 97 filters!

I'm reading through the Shapeshifter docs. Seems pretty straightforward to get it up and running. I was never a huge fan of the Mac prior to OS X but I too would like to be able to use this when I need it. Very nice work on your application of the A4000 with Linux by the way.

[Vascillious]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

I appreciate your input. However, I don't want this thread locked because it's a very worth-while thread just because of him, whoever he is. Sooner or later, a Moderator will resolve the issue.

LOL. "Soon he will be banished for apostasy!"

I haven't broken any rules as far as I know.

All I've done is not accept Amiga fantasy-fiction.

It's like going to church and questioning the Bible.

Yes, you probably would be kicked out for that.

For no other reason than it lets everybody else live a lie in peace.

If I'm going to be blocked for what I'm doing here, I will miss nothing and I will regret nothing.

I don't really care about a group which bans people for not accepting chasmically vacuous fanboism for an answer.

You keep telling me about how great this Amiga and how rubbish the PC was by comparison, so far I don't recall a single thing which convincingly makes that case.

It's been mostly a combination of conjecture and slanging matches from you. None of which makes the case for the Amiga.

I've asked repeatedly to put things on a measurable scale, rather than merely personally reflexive remarks, which happens all too infrequently, and whenever we have the Amiga lost:

From this thread alone, the only genuinely hardware comparatives have been graphics and RAM.

We're 150+ posts in and that's as far as the factual argument has come.

The PC has always had higher graphics resolutions and higher colour depths. We have basically found no time when the PC wasn't heir to better hardware options than the Amiga. None that have been discussed here at least.

If they existed then maybe you should sidestep the trash talking next time and for the first time actually accept my challenge to come up with some figures. Something by which an independent measure, more convincing than "I like dis not dat" can be made? You know something that can be put on a histogram or a graph.

Like sales figures, for example.

That's something that isn't some meaningless wild abstract like "the Amiga was multimedia" which doesn't mean anything of itself.

Here. The graph is in 1000s of units sold,



This is what I like: it isn't a personally reflexive account, it's a matter of fact. It's figures. It's a measurable statistic. It's tangible. There is no realistic argument you can have about that specific fact: The PC massively outsold the Amiga throughout the entirely of the Amigas lifetime.

You keep acting as if I'm somehow stupid for not seeing the superiority of the Amiga, itself a stupid ad hominem remark, but you know what?

I'm not alone in NOT seeing how the was Amiga better, am I?

Because basically nobody else did either.

It isn't like I'm living in isolation on an island by myself for being unconvinced.

Most people who ever bought a computer were also unconvinced.

Even to this day most people with a desktop computer have a PC compatible.

Most people who ever had a desktop computer had an IBM compatible.

Commodore went bankrupt. That isn't just my opinion. It's historically established fact.

I'm not the one with the proving to do: My 1987 "gamble" won. It was prophetic. I didn't get it wrong. History vindicates me. My prediction was correct.

You're the one with the proving to do.

Most people aren't on your side, not just me.

You are the minority as far as being convinced goes.

What here in this post is "trolling"?

None of it at all.

It's absolutely no more trolling than what I've listened to from the rest of the group.

The Mac is the only platform on that chart that hadn't flatlined by 1996.

Every other platform besides PC and Mac falls into decline by 1992.

Saying so is NOT trolling.

It's stating a historical fact.

If stating facts around here leads to calls for bans for trolling then it definitely isn't me who's in trouble.

[Weaselrama]

Good grief. Since when did "units sold" have anything to do with a computer's capabilities or its popularity? The PC outsells the Mac by a wide-margin. Doesn't matter, the Mac and Mac OS are alive and well and have their niche in marketing, video, photography, and music.

Gamers keep trying to tell us that from their perspective the Mac sucks and should just die. It's an apples and car parts comparison. The Mac isn't a gaming machine. It's a machine with which to get serious work done, marketed toward a particular creative aesthetic. Apple is alive and well and my own home is a pretty good example of Mac integration.

Poor guy. You've tried by hook or by crook by every avenue imaginable to make a case that the PC was "better" than the Amiga between 1985 and 1991 and you CAN'T because it WASN'T. You don't seem to realize just how easy it is to disregard your blather. Fanboism by definition is the inability to see the deficits of a particular widget or set of widgets. The Amiga is like Latin or Biblical Hebrew or Koine Greek. "Dead" but extremely useful to have.

I feel sorry for you, filled with such rage against a computer and against those who used it, liked it, appreciated it for what it was and knew how powerful it was when it was new and who still use it as retromedia that you would come to an Amiga forum to vent your spleen. Over and over and over and over ad nauseam.

Please show us on the diagram where the Amiga hurt you. It's ok. Is the Amiga in the room with you now?

[Vascillious]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

Good grief. Since when did "units sold" have anything to do with a computer's capabilities or its popularity? The PC outsells the Mac by a wide-margin. Doesn't matter, the Mac and Mac OS are alive and well and have their niche in marketing, video, photography, and music.

Gamers keep trying to tell us that from their perspective the Mac sucks and should just die. It's an apples and car parts comparison. The Mac isn't a gaming machine. It's a machine with which to get serious work done, marketed toward a particular creative aesthetic. Apple is alive and well and my own home is a pretty good example of Mac integration.

Poor guy. You've tried by hook or by crook by every avenue imaginable to make a case that the PC was "better" than the Amiga between 1985 and 1991 and you CAN'T because it WASN'T. You don't seem to realize just how easy it is to disregard your blather. Fanboism by definition is the inability to see the deficits of a particular widget or set of widgets. The Amiga is like Latin or Biblical Hebrew or Koine Greek. "Dead" but extremely useful to have.

I feel sorry for you, filled with such rage against a computer and against those who used it, liked it, appreciated it for what it was and knew how powerful it was when it was new and who still use it as retromedia that you would come to an Amiga forum to vent your spleen. Over and over and over and over ad nauseam.

Please show us on the diagram where the Amiga hurt you. It's ok. Is the Amiga in the room with you now?

It's figures. You supplied none.

Try again, get some numbers this time.

You're still "I like dis not dat".

Have a go at coming up with something objective. I'm not going to bother to respond to you sitting there blowing smoke rings.

Find some concrete comparative figures, and link to them. That's the point.

Your browser pictures: Not exactly setting the pace, are they?

"Here's proof the Amiga is worse for web browsing than a PC"

Thanks, you really know how to make your point.

While you're chatting browser experience, why not play Robotstorm on your Amiga to test it for fun? A WebGL Playcanvas game. See how you get on.

https://playcanvas.com/

[Weaselrama]

Also, as an aside, you can't accuse Amiga fans who contribute to an Amiga Forum of being trolls in their own forum. We're too cognizant of the facts and too immersed in all things Amiga. We know its strengths and weaknesses. You really don't have a clue. You just hate the name and the fact a computer existed in the early days of the Microcomputer revolution that bested the PC for a little over 5 years and for some reason, that drives you apeshit.

Not my circus, not my monkeys dude.

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Weaselrama

I'm reading through the Shapeshifter docs. Seems pretty straightforward to get it up and running. I was never a huge fan of the Mac prior to OS X but I too would like to be able to use this when I need it. Very nice work on your application of the A4000 with Linux by the way.

That might be not me, you sure do not confuse with Saimo?

[Pixelfill]

So far I think we have identified 2 things that the Amiga categorically did better than a contemporary PC on which we can all agree.

1) It was let down by successive brand owners who either had no clue as to the value of the product, or no intention of maintaining the product, and unfortunately found itself the unwanted child of a bunch of useless corporations

2) It successfully found itself in a position of disdain for a certain outspoken member of "our community".

I posit that there is at least one other thing that the Amiga does better than a contemporary PC.

It has found itself as an object evoking a sense of nostalgia, sought out by enthusiasts who fondly remember their experiences of owning and using their Amiga. Something I suggest no-one would ever feel about the contemporary PC. Having to resolve IRQ conflicts, or meddling with the config.sys or autoexec.bat in order to persuade a sound card to operate in tandem with a mouse, or a CDROM?

To Vascillious, contributions to a forum usually take the form of attempting to stay on topic - which here is to identify *IF* there existed and *WHAT* things an Amiga could do better than a contemporary PC.

If you have no intention of contributing to the topic, by actually answering the question as raised, and not pervert the question to your own agenda then please feel free to remove yourself from the discussion. Try not to let the door hit you on your way out.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by saimon69

That might be not me, you sure do not confuse with Saimo?

Sorry, no - I meant to reply to Buggs.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by Vascillious

Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah. Blah, blah blah,

"Here's proof the Amiga is worse for web browsing than a PC"

Thanks, you really know how to make your point.

While you're chatting browser experience, why not play Robotstorm on your Amiga to test it for fun? A WebGL Playcanvas game. See how you get on.

So you've moved the goal posts once again and since you did such a ridiculously poor job of "proving" the PC was better or faster or a better Multimedia experience than the Amiga was from 1985 - 1991, NOW you're trying to compare by numbers PCs manufactured through 2005 to a machine that ended production in 1992.

Now you're trying to compare the Amiga to modern computers and OSs. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant strategy. Do you seriously think I posted those screenshots for you? No, I posted them because they were on topic. Of course an Amiga browser can't go toe to toe with Chrome or Firefox or even Edge. The point was, here's a computer and OS which was never designed for the Internet or web browsing doing just that, and doing it remarkably well given the hardware and OS.

But whatever you think keeps you in the game, man, regardless that you're completely off topic and adding nothing to the conversation but your anti-Amiga prejudices and bigotries.

[manossg]

I'd still like to see the list of software written for that super 1980's PC card.

[Vascillious]

Originally Posted by Pixelfill

So far I think we have identified 2 things that the Amiga categorically did better than a contemporary PC on which we can all agree.

1) It was let down by successive brand owners who either had no clue as to the value of the product, or no intention of maintaining the product, and unfortunately found itself the unwanted child of a bunch of useless corporations

2) It successfully found itself in a position of disdain for a certain outspoken member of "our community".

I posit that there is at least one other thing that the Amiga does better than a contemporary PC.

It has found itself as an object evoking a sense of nostalgia, sought out by enthusiasts who fondly remember their experiences of owning and using their Amiga. Something I suggest no-one would ever feel about the contemporary PC. Having to resolve IRQ conflicts, or meddling with the config.sys or autoexec.bat in order to persuade a sound card to operate in tandem with a mouse, or a CDROM?

To Vascillious, contributions to a forum usually take the form of attempting to stay on topic - which here is to identify *IF* there existed and *WHAT* things an Amiga could do better than a contemporary PC.

If you have no intention of contributing to the topic, by actually answering the question as raised, and not pervert the question to your own agenda then please feel free to remove yourself from the discussion. Try not to let the door hit you on your way out.

I'm still waiting for one of you to start talking in tangibles.

All that was is a misty eyed nostalgic dream.

Like so many other posts it also belongs in the "Things you can say about anything" category,

People have nostalgia for cars, airplanes, motorcycles, music recordings.

It doesn't - and I've called for this many times - constitute an objective measure. Hence my preference for numbers.

There are nostalgia groups for the Commodore 64, Atati 400 and 800, Sinclair Spectrum, Vax and PDP systems, IBM 360, Multics.... loads of things.

There are nostalgia groups for things that weren't computers.

Your love for these things is an emotional response attached to your formative experiences. It isn't a performance measure.

Also, as I've said above, I think the idea marketing was blame is another Amiga fan fantasy. Sure, it wasn't updated, that isn't marketing. That's having no hardware on the ground.

As before, we can say that about anything.

IBM could have made a different PC. They didn't. So what? Fantasy alternative timelines are not dealing with tangible facts. That's the consistent trouble with this group.

Oh, and pretending it's all my fault, even though history is on my side, not yours.

[Weaselrama]

Originally Posted by manossg

I'd still like to see the list of software written for that super 1980's PC card.

I'd still like to see the list of software and hardware that would have allowed a 1980s PC to do what the Amiga did and did well for nearly 6 years.

[Vascillious]

Originally Posted by manossg

I'd still like to see the list of software written for that super 1980's PC card.

I'd like to see the list of software available for the Amiga 1000 on its day of release.

Same argument applies.