Amiga (any) and LCD Display

[wlcina]

Look at this monitor: I think is usable with amiga without any flickerfixer/scandoubler or anything similar hardware, you should have clean and sharp screen. What do you think?

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/n...od_id=MH17NSSS

Signal Input Input Video Signal Analog RGB, CVBS, S-Video, TV (antenna/cable) Video Level Analog : 0.7VP-P Sync Type Separate H/V, Composite H/V Input Connectors 15pin D-Sub, S-Video, (SCART)RCA Connector, TV (antenna/cable)


Exists 15" -cheaper version or 19" ;-)

[Amiga1992]

No, it isn't useable with the Amiga.

Originally Posted by wlcina

>> Frequency Horiz. Rate (kHz) 30-81 (Analog)

It needs to sync as low as 15Kh to display Amiga modes. It can't even do DblPAL which goes at 28Khz of scanrate.

Also, a PAL display would need 50Khz of vetical syncrate. This one goes only as low as 56Khz.

[wlcina]

sorry I has been mistaken, (friend of mine told me that 710m has an scart connector), but this might be the right one:
http://www.samsung.com/sg/products/m...Specifications



Input Connectors


Included Signal Cables Analog RGB,
DVI Digital link, CVBS
S-video, Component ,
TV(antenna/cable), Scart
Analog : 0.7Vp-p
DIGITAL : TMDS™
Separate H/V,
Composite H/V
D-sub, DVI-D
CVBS, S-Video, SCART
Component, RF
D-Sub Cable
DVI cable(option)

[wlcina]

also I repaired upper link for cheaper solution (710MP is correct)

[derSammler]

Every LCD with a CVBS input can be connected to an Amiga without a flickerfixer/scandoubler. You don't have to care about the sync stuff in this case because that applies to the VGA input only.

[Joe Maroni]

but it isn´t that sharp as any other...

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by WindowsKiller

Every LCD with a CVBS input can be connected to an Amiga without a flickerfixer/scandoubler. You don't have to care about the sync stuff in this case because that applies to the VGA input only.

Yeah but Composite looks like absolute crap. Would be great if they accepted 15Khz scan rates to conenct the Amiga through RGB.

[Photon]

I'm a CRT man myself. Great contrast and color richness, quick update, and not "poke-your-eyes-out too-sharp pixels". I've seen screen costing $3000 and not one has beaten my Dell 19" Trinitron.

- "Why did you buy a drab display with pixels that stab your eyes out?" - "But it's so... flat." - "Yeah, now you have space for 15 inches of air behind your screen."

[alewis]

Well, my Dell 2100FPs are great. I went from two 19" Sony 400PSTs and a 21" Compaq 1100, to three 20" LCDs, and haven't looked back. At first I kept a 19" for art work, games, films and video production. Then I realised I just didn't need it.

Sure, BNC is better than 15pin VGA, but the DVI connection to me just beats the hell out of it. With a little adjustment on the Parhelia and the LCDs I get close to correct colour (and its only semi-pro video work, which ends up displayed on a family TV or a corporate projector, so perfect colour matching is wasted anyway). The wealth of video input on each (DSUB, DVI, Composite, S-Video) means I can have the main workhorse in dual-head via DVI, the Amiga via composite and DSUB, a video and DVD via S-VHS, and a bunch of other PC's via DSUB (including various flavours of dual and triple head). Hardest part was remembering which port on the linked KVMs!

As for '...15" of air behind the monitor..." nope, I get 20" of deskspace back, and a room which looks far less claustrophobic - even with more kit in!

[Amiga1992]

Yeah, LCDs are nice but only with today's resolutions. An Amiga is bound to look like arse in one. I do want an LCD for my Mac.

[alewis]

Yeah, wokbench/apps aint too clever at the Mig default resolution of 320xwhatever it was. But at 800x600 it's actually quite good. And composite display aint too bad at all for demos and games. Heck, I ran an x-box on one for a while. Almost persuaded me to buy an x-box for the office!

Also have a couple of 17" LCD here, and on the cheapo LG Flatron workbench is ok on a custom screen at 1280x1024. I'm semi-seriously bidding on a couple of Sony 15" jobbies, as they have native 1024x768 which is more suited to [old] Amiga gfx cards.

[wlcina]

how did you connect ami to lcd ?

[pbareges]

akira i think you're wrong. as there's a scart connection available (that means 15kHz RGB), i think you could get a good rendering on this one depending on the included converter quality (as the real display h&v frequencies do not match SCART standards)....


if you give it a try, let us know...

[alewis]

Originally Posted by wlcina

how did you connect ami to lcd ?

Initially via the composite video port. The Dell LCD's I have have DSUB, DVI, S-Video and Composite.

The Amigas with gfx cards are (or will be) via DSUB, with a second connection via composite video for stuff that really needs it -e.g. will not display via scandoubler/FF, or looks crap due to lack of buffer memory such as the ICD FFV, etc etc, or just want to boot and run, ie a demo

[MigNut]

You have to be a little bit wary with LCD monitors and Amigas. Amigas with Gfx Card output will work fine, as it is essentially the same as a PC output. Native Amiga modes will work via composite or Scart on monitors that have that facility, but picture quality can be naff.

Where LCDs fall over is if you are running all your Amiga native modes through a ScanDoubler/FlickerFixer and into the monitor via the VGA PC connection. Some LCDs (like early LG ones) won’t sync down to the 31Khz required, so even with a scan doubler it won’t work. But some LCDs will work with a ScanDoubled 31Khz output but will fall over on screen resolutions.

For example, pump in an Amiga Hi-Res laced, which is 640x512, through a ScanDoubler/FlickerFixer into a cheap LCD like the Aveo and you’ll get a picture, but it will see the 640 horizontal resolution and ‘assume’ it is getting a standard PC type 640x480, when in fact it’s getting 640x512 so you loose 32 pixels from your vertical, 16 top and 16 bottom, and although a lot of cheaper LCDs may have many OSD controls, they often don’t have one to shrink the screen vertically so you cannot get to see those parts of the screen no matter what you do. It’s enough to loose a lot of your controls on Scala or Lightwave for example.

I have tried many with varying success, usually not good, but I tried a Mitsubishi 15” and that was fine on Gfx card output AND on ScanDoubled/FlickerFixed AGA as well, just needed some tweaking with the OSD then it remembered the settings.

The trouble is that any other resolution other than what the monitor is optimised for (usually 1024x768 on 15” ones) goes all ‘soft focus’ and crappy looking, so certain native Amgia screen mode apps that require precision use become hard work.

I appreciate the space saving element, and the lower heat output etc. etc. but essentially nothing can beat a good CRT for Amiga usage. They will all accept a ScanDoubled/FlickerFixed 31Khz mode with no trouble and will look sharp and good. Plus, I have to agree with Photon, the image on most LCDs is just too artificial, particularly if doing photographic manipulation on Amiga graphics apps. They just don’t give a true image and can con you into adjusting your photo to completely wrong gamma and colour levels on screen only to be disappointed by the printed result.

For serious work I will stick with my CRT. I am fortunate enough to have my Amiga running on a huge 21 inch flat-screen CRT and it looks the Mutts Nuts. Sure, it takes up loads of desk space and takes two people to carry it safely up stairs (LOL!) but the image is top notch for all Amiga apps, whether Gfx card or AGA.

Plus, if left on all day it provides enough heat in my hobby room to negate the use of the radiator! LOL!

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by pbareges

akira i think you're wrong. as there's a scart connection available (that means 15kHz RGB

NOpe, you can't know if the monitor is wired for RGB through SCART. If it is the case, it coudl well be used, given you create teh proper Amiga RGB to SCART RGB adapter.

In most cases, TVs that have a SCART plug are NOT wired for RGB.

[alewis]

Originally Posted by Akira

NOpe, you can't know if the monitor is wired for RGB through SCART. If it is the case, it coudl well be used, given you create teh proper Amiga RGB to SCART RGB adapter.

In most cases, TVs that have a SCART plug are NOT wired for RGB.

I disagree. Practically every TV made in the last 5 years has two SCART connectors, one of which is RGB SCART. The possible exception to this is budget range and portables, but even in the lower segment of consumer goods, feature ranges have improved beyond recognition, and often have a broader range than more expensive rivals.

Typical examples? Budget DVD players costing under £75 that offer RGB, S-Video, composite, component, progressive scan, dd5.1 and DTS.

Its now at the point - in the UK market at least - that people are clamouring for three SCARTS, with at least two wired for RGB. The driving force? 7 years ago the huge increase in Sky, which required SCART for best picture, and 5 years ago the take-off of DVD, requiring another SCART input above and beyond what a TV and Sat box offered (the abillity to wire sat and VHS to one set with one SCART socket)

However, you right that merely looking if a device has SCART input one doesn't know if it is RGB or composite wired. Check the specs... better still, get a demonstration :-)

[Jope]

The Dell 2001p supports 15kHz horiz and 50Hz vertical!

Someone on the Finnish Amiga User's Union's board even tested it to work with an Amiga.

[alewis]

Horses for courses. A new, pin sharp CRT does look nice, on any display. I remember at the last Amiga show I was at watching Paul Nolan use SiSys on two 17" monitors, and wishing I could upgrade my 15"... the picture looked soooo nice. But then so did Steve Jones' daughter - I wish I could have upgraded my wife to her, too

Used a Mig on 19" Sony and 21" Compaq... but after using these Dell's there was just no going back.

The comment re screen resolution is true of any LCD on any platform, regardless of PC or Amiga. Frankly, I was happy on 1280x1024 on a 21". But the Dell's use 1600x1200 and now I wouldnt go back to anything less; so much screen real estate, so much more room, and in dual head and triple head room.. heck, the real estate is so large productivity zooms up! Hell, thats 3200x1200 and 4800x1200 desktops!

Ok, so thats PC-centric. With an Amiga... an LCD is only of use, really, if the screen res you use matches the LCD native resolution. More so on the Amiga than PC as a lot of [legacy] Amiga software uses custom, non-resizeable screens. Without a gfx card, one is stuck. But thats the price for using a 20 year old design on modern equipment.

Regards heat.... lol. I wont list the kit in this "office"... suffice to say with everything running I work in shorts and T-Shirt.

Originally Posted by MigNut

I appreciate the space saving element, and the lower heat output etc. etc. but essentially nothing can beat a good CRT for Amiga usage. Plus, if left on all day it provides enough heat in my hobby room to negate the use of the radiator! LOL!