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Old 01 October 2018, 20:30   #61
Olaf Barthel
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Originally Posted by hth313 View Post
It would really be a nice touch to have the RKMs. I wonder if the source for them still exists in machine readable form?
That's a definite yes. I worked with the manuscripts (in troff, TeX and LaTex form). The end-result became the foundation for the OS4 online documentation.

Quote:
If yes, it would be possible to put them together again in some electronic format(s). Actually doing significant updates to them can wait, just getting the harbour rebuilt is a good first step. We can make the ships sail again later...
It would be possible, but some serious editing would be needed first. I converted the manuscripts to LaTeX2e format some 15+ years ago, if memory serves, and the page layout looks pretty ugly.

Since there's always going to be a legal angle to publishing this material, somebody would have to look into this first, too.

Solve those problems and find a cost-effective publishing method and it might happen
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Old 01 October 2018, 20:32   #62
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Because Updateto314 it requires AmigaOS 3.5 or AmigaOS 3.9 and it can not be installed on OS 3.0/3.1? (I think it can be done by modifying the script)
Can you have some info !
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Old 01 October 2018, 21:11   #63
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Hyperion stated that bundles with ROM and disks will arrive a bit later.
That's good news. Looking forward to what they come up with.
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Old 01 October 2018, 21:30   #64
wizard66
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OKe I have orderd a set for use with my fpgaarcade replay
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Old 01 October 2018, 21:53   #65
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I really hope I didn't miss this but I have read the full thread and searched for this but is there a full set of release notes or features list of the 3.1.4 release?

Thanks
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Old 01 October 2018, 23:17   #66
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I've just installed it on my Amiga 1200. Took a while. I streamed the entire thing on twitch.tv/betajaen. Took around 4 hours or so.

I jumped the gun a little, so don't take my experiences as negative. Because there was no physical ROM, I had to 'kick' the 3.1.4 ROM file into Fast RAM via blizkick.

I ended up using a recovery disk, with USB drivers on it, so I could access my installer backups and other files. Once the ROM was kicked in, installing Workbench was a breeze.

However; If your going to use the newer FastFileSystem, be careful because the 3.1 ROM doesn't know what to do with partitions formatted under it. So I ended up using PFS, but I did take advantage of the 4+ GB, and made some larger partitions this time around.

Some installers are not sure what to do with the new Workbench. I had to install Poseidon by hand. Then I just installed the essentials; icon.library, kingcon, mmu.library, etc. which seem to be fine. I didn't try any of the essential patches; fblit/ftext, etc.

I still have to install some other bits, and restore my games and applications. But at the end of my stream, it was starting to feel like 3.9 but without all the 'extra baggage'.

All in all, I'm very impressed and pleased with my new purchase. Thankyou Hyperion!
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Old 01 October 2018, 23:44   #67
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Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM View Post
Can you have some info !
Hi AMIGASYSTEM, Yes, you can probably modify the Updateto314 script to use it as an installer for 3.1.4 on a 3.1 system.

The only advantages you will have are easier customization and less memory consumption. But it will certainly look ugly as hell.

Last edited by gulliver; 01 October 2018 at 23:53.
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Old 01 October 2018, 23:48   #68
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I really hope I didn't miss this but I have read the full thread and searched for this but is there a full set of release notes or features list of the 3.1.4 release?

Thanks
Release Notes are considered for the time being, developer material, so they are not available for the general public.

However if you need some kind of more in depth information please ask and we will do our best to provide it.

If you thoroughly read the entire FAQ you will understand 90% of the features that this update brings.
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Old 01 October 2018, 23:48   #69
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Great work, this is good stuff. I'll by a bunch of these when the physical stuff comes out (at least the ROMs anyway, don't need 3 sets of disks ;-)
Any word on when we can expect the physical stuff? I assume it'll be a month or two?
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Old 01 October 2018, 23:52   #70
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Great work, this is good stuff. I'll by a bunch of these when the physical stuff comes out (at least the ROMs anyway, don't need 3 sets of disks ;-)
Any word on when we can expect the physical stuff? I assume it'll be a month or two?
I really dont know, this is the part where Hyperion takes business into their own hands and negotiates with third party distributors. We are not part of it.

But my educated guess, is that it will have to be very soon, because they will not want to loose momentum.
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Old 02 October 2018, 00:06   #71
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Instructions for getting it work with (inside) Vampie already exist. I guess you can also put the A500 Rom in an ACA500plus? Anyone tried?
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Old 02 October 2018, 00:06   #72
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
Release Notes are considered for the time being, developer material, so they are not available for the general public.
Release notes are by definition for the customer, and are often made available to the public (potential customers) as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_notes

You can have internal documentation, change logs and whatever you want, but then do not call them Release Notes, or at least do not talk about their existence in public. Doing so is confusing.

BTW, I liked the FAQ, it is very useful. And thank you for the release, I will get it down the road!
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Old 02 October 2018, 00:16   #73
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Originally Posted by hth313 View Post
Release notes are by definition for the customer, and are often made available to the public (potential customers) as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_notes

You can have internal documentation, change logs and whatever you want, but then do not call them Release Notes, or at least do not talk about their existence in public. Doing so is confusing.

BTW, I liked the FAQ, it is very useful. And thank you for the release, I will get it down the road!
I am glad you read the FAQ. We put a lot of effort and knowledge inside it.

In the Amiga world Release Notes are not public documentation, they are developer material.

Remember that the Amiga comes from an age prior to wikipedia by some decades and even before many computing concepts were defined.

And please dont cite wikipedia as a source of accurate information...

But if you still need additional information in a particular AmigaOS subject, just ask, again we will do our best to provide you with an answer.
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Old 02 October 2018, 00:31   #74
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Not trying to split hairs here, but we're breaking with convention in a handful of ways.

First, the release notes thing is a bit strange. This is industry standard, and has been since I've worked in software. Hyperion's site says over 20 Kickstart ROM modules and many more disk-based core OS components were fixed, updated, or added - but doesn't provide any details. So we take this on faith?

Second, we're being expected to shell out individual licenses for individual computing platforms, even though we can probably expect that _many_ ROM components are shared among all the different computer models.

Third, we're paying for individual licenses for each computer model without any hardware or any physical media, which is fine, but there's no conversation happening to suggest what'll happen once physical media becomes available. Do we have to pay for things all over again, in full? Does physical media _also_ get you the ROM contents to use in an emulator?

I love the fact that this is being updated, and that AmigaOS is still being pushed forward, but the execution of this is very questionable and requires a lot of faith (and money). I'm reluctant to pay for anything based on this.
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Old 02 October 2018, 00:54   #75
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If we are airing our little gripes ;-) at this point, the intuition library thing bugs me a bit as I read about it.
I just read this on the site:
Quote:
We decided not to include the V45 intuition.library in ROM because it is not compatible with CyberGraphX. Please try to contact the CyberGraphX authors for a fix so we can (hopefully) include it in ROM in the next release.
So, we have to reboot to manually load the new intuition library because it breaks CyberGraphX. OK..
I understand that IF... ;-) ...
Does it break it so much that that you couldn't have done it the other way?
If the new intuition.library is built in, does the Amiga crash so bad with a CybergraphX that it is just dead in the water.

Or would it work if CyberGraphX owners did a loadmodule/reboot to manually load the older intuition.library?

As it is, I am thinking now might be the time to get an eprom burner so I can try to make a kickstart ROM with the new intuition.library. (OK, I might be using that as a justification to try to talk myself into buying an eprom burner, but still.. ;-)

So, I am not really TOO bothered by it. ;-) But if it would work both ways and you had to decided which one has to go thru a reboot, I would think you should err on the side of people without a CybergraphX.

If however, the new library crashes the Amiga on boot so you can't do ANYTHING if you have a Cybergraphx, then (in the words of Emily Latella)...
Never mind..

(I think I am just psyched about the new 3.14 and wanted to comment..)
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Old 02 October 2018, 01:00   #76
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It's completely unclear to me what the advantages of 3.14 are over 3.5 and 3.9 (which i bought both)
It is also completely unclear to me whether this new rom is included in the sale of 3.14 or not.

Yes, I read the faq, but it was confusing and incomplete to me.
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Old 02 October 2018, 01:01   #77
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
Hi AMIGASYSTEM, Yes, you can probably modify the Updateto314 script to use it as an installer for 3.1.4 on a 3.1 system.

The only advantages you will have are easier customization and less memory consumption. But it will certainly look ugly as hell.
Thank you gulliver, i did not talk about big changes but only to remove the request of the "44":

version >nil: sys:c/setpatch 44
to
version >nil: sys:c/setpatch
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Old 02 October 2018, 01:13   #78
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
Hi AMIGASYSTEM, Yes, you can probably modify the Updateto314 script to use it as an installer for 3.1.4 on a 3.1 system.

The only advantages you will have are easier customization and less memory consumption. But it will certainly look ugly as hell.
Is this because of the new icons and suchlike? I'm only interested in updating my existing WB3.1 install - as I asked previously, will my own custom icons survive, or do I have to go through and re-install them all? What about background patterns in WB? The FAQ seems to state that they won't work, or don't tile?

I'm really not interested in new eye-candy - glowicons tend to be hideous and the screenshots I've seen of 3.1.4 certainly bear this out. I just want to get the new updated libraries and bug fixes.
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Old 02 October 2018, 02:16   #79
gulliver
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@cloverskull

The way the OS is sold is only managed by Hyperion themselves, we have
no saying in that.

If someone wants discounts, release notes, just ask them.

We (developers and betatesters) are foreign to money matters
regarding OS 3.1.4. We did this as a labor of love for the Amiga.

There was never money involved for us, and there will never be.
But this is something we knew from the start and making money was
never our goal to begin with.

We just hope that if enough revenue is obtained thru the sale of
3.1.4, then Hyperion will cover the costs for a next round of
development. But as of today all costs were ours to bare with. And
the ultimate saying if there will be a next version will be both from
the amount of sales (you) and Hyperion themselves.

Passion or insanity, or both, is what drives us.

@desiv

The problem with intuition.library and cybergraphx is that instead of
attempting to patch libraries in a clean way for CGX to do its work,
its developer relied on specific compiler features. The thing is that
this compiler used to build intuition.library (a Sun GreenHills C 68k
compiler) has been lost in oblivion for decades. So we tried to
contact him, to help him use a cleaner method and rework/update CGX.
But he seems either busy or not willing.

So anyway, we rewrote intuition.library V45 to work with a standard
compiler, we added fixes and new features, but cannot integrate it in
rom because we will loose CGX support, which means that some graphic
cards will not work with the OS anymore.

So the solution is not ideal, but it was the only one we had.

You should all try to contact Frank Mariak and gently ask him to
update CGX. He maybe even update it! I really dont know, I just hope.

Anyway if you can, only use native monitors or Picasso96 and you
will be fine with the new V45 intuition.library.

Furthermore, your suggestion to do things the other way round still
stands, but we believed we should give CGX a fair chance to update.

@fierman
You should read Hyperion┬┤s press release then. It enumerates the main
features in a simple way, and the FAQ only gives you a more in depth
look of what the update brings to the table.

@AMIGASYSTEM
@Dunny

I understand what you are asking.
I will try to see if I can modify my Updateto314 script to perform
the 3.1 update to 3.1.4.

Unfortunately this is not so easy as removing the version check.
It requires much more work.

Give me a couple of days and I will try to deliver something for you
on Aminet.
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Old 02 October 2018, 02:38   #80
cloverskull
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Originally Posted by gulliver View Post
@cloverskull

The way the OS is sold is only managed by Hyperion themselves, we have
no saying in that.

If someone wants discounts, release notes, just ask them.

We (developers and betatesters) are foreign to money matters
regarding OS 3.1.4. We did this as a labor of love for the Amiga.

There was never money involved for us, and there will never be.
But this is something we knew from the start and making money was
never our goal to begin with.

We just hope that if enough revenue is obtained thru the sale of
3.1.4, then Hyperion will cover the costs for a next round of
development. But as of today all costs were ours to bare with. And
the ultimate saying if there will be a next version will be both from
the amount of sales (you) and Hyperion themselves.

Passion or insanity, or both, is what drives us.
Thanks for the follow-up. This clarified a lot I'm happy with your explanation here, it _would_ be cool to see all what changes there are between 3.1.4 and 3.1, but I'm happy to support once Hyperion figures out a more sane licensing scheme. Thanks!
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