Why do you hate Cloanto so much?

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

@Harrison

If I am not mistaken, the term "Own" refers to any licensed copy in the UK,

one thing that completely shocked me when I took up the law module is the part about contract law in the UK...

just because something is stated in the contract does not make it legal, and this includes any denial of statutory rights, as stated above.

in the course of the module we took apart a contracty by a leading mobile phone company and it was proven to shown atleast 4 direct infringments on statutory rights, i was completely shocked.

still am infact. I suppose the best thng to know is that LAW is about imterpertation and its implementations against a given statute. There will always be greay areas, and this is the domain of the lawyer...

hmmm perhaps I should talk with CFOU about changing my job and skill sets

Unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations is how we in the UK are getting our charges/PPI back.
I agree with you, just because a contract says something does not mean it can be above common law.
Try and find who owns the current copyright on Kickstart 3.0 for me, I could never find it.

[Doobrey]

Originally Posted by exoticaga

They have found a loop hole, and they are using it to sell roms. Roms modified by two bytes that is.

If you're thinking of the 'stubstantial change' defense in Copyright Law, then no, not even close.
Modifying 2 bytes of a 524,288 byte file doesn't not count as a substantial.

Besides, not all the ROMs are modified. (IIRC, it's only 3.1)

There must be a paper trail proving that Cloanto don't or do have rights to sell the amiga modified roms.

Yes, and all that's needed is 2 copies of a contract. 1 copy at Amigas office, the other at Cloantos.
No need for any of it to be publicly available.

Besides how the heck are they able to sell the roms modified.

Like I said before,Because they were told to by Amiga !

Now that must have a paper trail if legal. Yet no such paper trail has surfaced, or not been found. Which make me think Cloanto is on the fiddle.

So you couldn't find it on this newfangled interwebs.
It could also mean one of two things.
A. You didn't search hard enough.
B. That information is private (as are most contracts between 2 private companies)

When did you last hear of Cloanto prosecuting anyone for selling or giving away illegaly their amiga version modified 2 byte roms.

When did you last hear of Amiga prosecuting Cloanto for doing the same ?

Don't you think it odd that Amiga haven't once complained about Cloanto if they were unlicensed?
Just look at all the FUD they spread about MorphOS, the nastygrams to A1k.org, suing Hyperion, suing their ex-boss Garry Hare etc. If McBill felt wronged, he wouldn't sit by silently for years, especially since Amiga Forever is advertised and sold as fully licensed and legal.

[TCD]

I hate Cloanto and Amiga Inc for these neverending threads they create. In the end it won't change anything right now. Maybe a direct letter to Amiga Inc. would reveal how much they (or whoever has the fecking rights) want for the kickstart rights. Guess they would never sell them though, just because... well... I have no idea why
Let's turn it the other way around : If nobody would buy Amiga Forever... Hmmm...

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

They changed the first 3 bytes to £££.

LOL.

Frank

[frank_b]

Originally Posted by Doobrey

Just look at all the FUD they spread about MorphOS, the nastygrams to A1k.org, suing Hyperion, suing their ex-boss Garry Hare etc.

What happened with A1k.org?

[WOC_Admin]

Hi,

I bought Amiga Explorer sometime ago and only used it the other day. I think its a great product, pretty easy to setup and does exactly what I want it to do. I'm not too sure about the C64forever package, I cant see many people buying it!

[rhester72]

Originally Posted by prowler

Good idea! I'll have a look...

There were four (real) bytes changed:

http://kickstartrevival.dynalias.com.../43b6dd22.html

Rodney

[exoticaga]

Originally Posted by killergorilla

They changed the first 3 bytes to £££.

Says it all

[ImmortalA1000]

Hmmm well I don't hate Cloanto seeing as I am not forced to purchase their products. What I do hate is the current load of jism monkeys that own the Amiga IP...do f**kall with it for decades and then have the cheek to protect their copyright on something they have helped kill and did nothing useful with even once I hope whoever owns Amiga right now goes bankrupt very quickly and someone with at least one brain cell ends up in charge of it if even only to build Minimeg type devices on mass scale for £50 or something.

As for a C64 package, I know of awesome C64 DVDs out their already for a LOT less ££ than C64 Forever so no $ale there either I'm afraid.

[exoticaga]

The question is that people should ask, do they feel Cloanto is gaining $ from the Amiga in the right or wrong way.

Cloanto could tell us if for the main coded software they use with their gui's. Do the code developers get any royalties from Cloanto profiteering of others code.

I do dislike it when a company uses that code directly to profit from it. While some companies do it the correct way. Sell the gui and own developed tools. If need to extened the software the user then has to visit a developer home site for the software to enhance the gui software they have bought license for.

If was me i would right in the terms for not to happen, or if not posible as these agreements tend to be badly written. Make the code copyrighted and and do it via donation. Donate any ammount say a $1 for example, and you get to use the software for life, and all its updates. Problem here is the code that is used, is coded up from other free software. Maybe the source softwares agree to have a donation $1 or less thing 1cent even. That way these developers stick their finger back up at the companies. So they can not profit from their hard work. Then companies such as Cloanto would then have pay for the right to use the code in their gui, or maybe not at all.

[Paul_s]

what would happen if we implanted Kickstart 1.3 into Bill McEwens brain?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

[MethodGit]

He'd be feeling rather blue.

[Zetr0]

Originally Posted by Paul_s

what would happen if we implanted Kickstart 1.3 into Bill McEwens brain?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address.

sorry my friend, somethings just ain't worth upgrading..... save the Kick 1.3 for something more usefull.... like adding scsi harddrive functionality to toe-jam or providing a better exec. for belly-button-lint....

[ImmortalA1000]

I just think it is not in any users interest for any company to be so ferocious about Kickstart/Workbench copyrights for something as old as 1.2/1.3.

Amiga emulation as far as WinUAE and kickstart ROMS should be free, not making this so just limits the fan base worldwide with every passing year.

I mean look at VICE...does anyone prevent them distrubiting a fully working emulator from their website? Nope...so Amiga Inc have destroyed themselves and with their death hopefully Cloanto won't get their hands on ownership of these files to lock away and destroy the Amiga love by hunting down people selling Amiga DVDs for a few dollars....waste of everybody's time.

[amiga]

Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000

...

Amiga emulation as far as WinUAE and kickstart ROMS should be free, not making this so just limits the fan base worldwide with every passing year.
...

Kickstart roms are *already* free.
Nobody will prevent you from doing a Google search!

[Mequa]

I fully support that the Amiga Kickstart ROMs (from 1.0 to 3.1 at least) be released into the public domain for free legal distribution for use with emulators on all platforms. The current copyright holders had no part in their development.

If Cloanto made a good enough Amiga Forever product, people would buy it whether or not they can freely get all the ROMs legally elsewhere.
If they wouldn't, then something is clearly wrong with the product...

[TCD]

Originally Posted by amiga

Kickstart roms are *already* free.

As is almost any current PC game by that definition...

[mombasajoe]

Originally Posted by AmigaBoingBall

How would they package this for those who want to buy it as a physical item. its less than 5MB. it would be pointless to waste a CD for it.

Do it like Magnussoft: Release Amiga Classix Gold on CD for 5 EUR, put 1.3, 3.0 and 150 games on it. That was an okay price and I´ve paid it. I even would have paid 8,50 EUR ich 3.1 was included.

[Evore]

Amiga made a hell of a computer, but as business people they are weak.

[onkelarie]

I can't say I hate Cloanto, but I must say that their Amiga Forever distributions are basically useless and it's quite disturbing they're selling slightly altered kickstart roms. Thank goodness for search engines though.