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Old 29 April 2020, 18:12   #1161
Amigajay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manossg View Post
So Amiga/C64/Speccy games are not video games, guys, simple as that! :P
They are ‘computer games’, i never knew what a ‘video game’ was until the late 80s, gaming in the UK was ruled 95% by micro computers
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Old 29 April 2020, 20:25   #1162
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Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
Amstrad went on to produce three more new Spectrum models which were successful for many years thereafter. I'm not sure I'd call that a "crash".
A financial crash or market crash does not mean there is no recovery afterwards.
Actually history shows there is a recovery every time ... but we still canll these events "crash".

Last edited by Gorf; 29 April 2020 at 21:34.
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Old 29 April 2020, 20:36   #1163
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From Wikipedia
"Video games are developed and released for one or several platforms and may not be available on others. Specialized platforms such as arcade games, which present the game in a large, typically coin-operated chassis, were common in the 1980s in video arcades, but declined in popularity as other, more affordable platforms became available. These include dedicated devices such as video game consoles, as well as general-purpose computers like a laptop, desktop or handheld computing devices".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game
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Old 29 April 2020, 20:40   #1164
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With waning console interests in the United States, the computer game market was able to gain a strong foothold in 1983 and beyond.
Developers that had been primarily in the console games space, like Activision, turned their attention to developing computer game titles to stay viable.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983
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Old 29 April 2020, 20:45   #1165
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Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
With waning console interests in the United States, the computer game market was able to gain a strong foothold in 1983 and beyond.
Developers that had been primarily in the console games space, like Activision, turned their attention to developing computer game titles to stay viable.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983
Yeah, so? In what way does this contradict "Video games are developed and released for one or several platforms...These include dedicated devices such as video game consoles, as well as general-purpose computers like a laptop, desktop or handheld computing devices"?
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Old 29 April 2020, 20:58   #1166
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Yeah, so? In what way does this contradict "Video games are developed and released for one or several platforms...These include dedicated devices such as video game consoles, as well as general-purpose computers like a laptop, desktop or handheld computing devices"?
The whole discussion startet with me saying

Quote:
But being developed as a game console for the two biggest video-game markets (Nordamerica and Japan) it makes sense to integrate that part.
(Europe was more or less non existent an a market for video games in the early 80s...)
I was clearly referring to game consoles and the market for these consoles and the games made for these devices.

At that point in time (early 80s) europe was simply no important market for these kind of devices and games.
(In contrast to homecomputers and computer games)

It makes even more sense if you look at the exchange rate Dollar/Pound or Dollar/Mark back then: the Dollar was very high... meaning sales in European countries would bring very litte money for US companies.
That changed end of 1985 when the Dollar lost almost half if it's value.

But at the time the concept for the Amiga (still as a game console) was made, Europe was no target - hence the integration of NTSC in Denise ...
That was not "stupid" or "wrong" - it was just a logical step. And Nintendo and Atari did the same ...

ok now?

Last edited by Gorf; 29 April 2020 at 22:02.
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Old 29 April 2020, 21:12   #1167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
ok now?
Man, I have no problem with the essence of what you are saying. It is just this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
(Europe was more or less non existent an a market for video games in the early 80s...)
that is wrong and semantically confusing. If you said "Europe was more or less non existent an a market for console games in the early 80s", I would have no problem with that.
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Old 29 April 2020, 21:29   #1168
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Originally Posted by manossg View Post
that is wrong and semantically confusing. If you said "Europe was more or less non existent an a market for console games in the early 80s", I would have no problem with that.
that's why I quoted Wikipedia above.
They make a clear distinction between "console games" and "computer games" in that article.

The article itself is called "Video_game_crash_of_1983", but is says there was no crash for computer games ... ergo "video games" must mean something else!

I am here on the same page with "Amigajay": in the 80s we used the term "computer games" at least that's what I knew from english magazines.
In Germany we called it "Computerspiele" ... on consoles like the Atari 2600 you would play "Videospiele".

There seems to be a shift of meaning since the 80s - now people don't make that kind of differentiation any more and your Wikipedia entry shows this ...

Nevertheless: my disputed sentence has a clear context. And it should be evaluated within that context.
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Old 29 April 2020, 21:40   #1169
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Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
The article itself is called "Video_game_crash_of_1983", but is says there was no crash for computer games ... ergo "video games" must mean something else!
To call that a stretch of logic would be an understatement, but whatever, you can call them frappuccino octopi for all I care. :P

PS. In Greece we use the term "video games" for, well, all video games and, sometimes "console games" when we refer specifically to video games for consoles.
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Old 29 April 2020, 21:45   #1170
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To call that a stretch of logic would be an understatement, but whatever, you can call them frappuccino octopi for all I care. :P
There never was a frappuccino crash until corona....

Quote:
PS. In Greece we use the term "video games" for, well, all video games and, sometimes "console games" when we refer specifically to video games for consoles.
and how did you call computer games?

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Old 29 April 2020, 21:52   #1171
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There never was a frappuccino crash until corona....
And now that mask-wearing has become mandatory here, we shall have to punch holes in the mask for drinking coffee with a straw, lol.

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and how did you call computer games?
(drum roll)....video games. And some other (a bit derogatory) terms, that cannot be translated, I fear.
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Old 29 April 2020, 21:56   #1172
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And now that mask-wearing has become mandatory here, we shall have to punch holes in the mask for drinking coffee with a straw, lol.
I just saw someone today with such a punch hole ... he used it for his cigarette!
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Old 29 April 2020, 22:12   #1173
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What morons edit wikipedia these days!?

Seems ‘computer games’ in general has now been tagged under ‘PC game’ wow, some millennial obviously has no knowledge of home computer games before 1995!
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Old 29 April 2020, 22:14   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorf View Post
I am here on the same page with "Amigajay": in the 80s we used the term "computer games" at least that's what I knew from english magazines.
In Germany we called it "Computerspiele" ... on consoles like the Atari 2600 you would play "Videospiele".
Yeah, sure, so as you admit yourself you could play a Videospiele on an Atari 2600. Wait, but if you could do that then probably the videospiele market wasn't non-existent, eh? *

You see, the problem is not so much with your original context - thought if it really was the reason for something is disputable, but okay, nevermind that - but with heavy generalizations/exaggerations people make to support their arguments.

It's like Amigajay saying he never knew what a videogame was until late Eighties, despite the fact that one of the most influential mags which launched in UK in 1981 was called Computer and Video Games

So, sorry, videogames (if you must) were pretty much existent in Europe. And there never was a real computer crash in 1985, despite what this silly article you quoted says (go on, read it again, and tell me you really agree with that pile of nonsense they wrote there. BBC are not infallible I mean -ST and Amiga were released in this year (while all the other micros were still kicking butt) - not exactly what I would call a crash.

So, seeing as we're on an internet forum, which is full of pedants, such as yours truly, it is inevitable such extreme statements will be challenged.

*sure, you could've just said it was "much smaller", or something to that effect but then we wouldn't have this delicious derail

Last edited by dreadnought; 29 April 2020 at 22:17. Reason: too old to spell
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Old 29 April 2020, 22:23   #1175
Amigajay
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It's like Amigajay saying he never knew what a videogame was until late Eighties, despite the fact that one of the most influential mags which launched in UK in 1981 was called Computer and Video Games
Yep, still had no influence of me not knowing what a videogame was, consoles were non existent for most families due to cost of the games, Master System and NES sales were awful until 1989 they may have well not even been on the shelves! Micro computers and cheap games ruled the decade. And hence no-one was going around calling a computer game a video game.
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Old 29 April 2020, 22:43   #1176
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Yep, still had no influence of me not knowing what a videogame was, consoles were non existent for most families due to cost of the games, Master System and NES sales were awful until 1989 they may have well not even been on the shelves! Micro computers and cheap games ruled the decade.
Boss, I grew up behind Iron Curtain and trust me when I say that you don't get any more backward than that. Even so, we all very well knew what video games were, and the difference between console and a computer. If you want to insist that you've lived in some sort of a bubble in the UK in the Eighties, while everyone around was buzzing about all kinds of games then please do so, but I do have hard time believing that.

And words have meanings. Not owning =/= equal not knowing. Non-existent =/= millions of units sold. Video game crash =/= some company changing ownership. And so on and on...

Blah. This is the second time this thread has jumped shark, and got from amusing-to-tedious really fast, so I will try to give it a wide berth in the future.
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Old 29 April 2020, 23:06   #1177
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Yeah, sure, so as you admit yourself you could play a Videospiele on an Atari 2600.
I do not only "admit" it - that is in fact the argument I made!
Video-games where played on "video-game-consoles" and not on computers

Quote:
Wait, but if you could do that then probably the videospiele market wasn't non-existent, eh? *
from a financial point of view: it wasn't in the early 80's.
that companies tried to sell their product in Europe? sure
that some people did buy it? sure they did ... but the numbers weren't impressive.

Quote:
but with heavy generalizations/exaggerations people make to support their arguments.
The market for "video-games" as in games for consoles in early 80s was USA and Japan.
Europe was irrelevant in terms of numbers and revenue.
That is no "exaggeration" and no "generalization" but a simple fact.
That is why companies like Saga, Nintendo and Atari treated Europe like a third word country ...

Quote:
It's like Amigajay saying he never knew what a videogame was until late Eighties, despite the fact that one of the most influential mags which launched in UK in 1981 was called Computer and Video Games
so there is a difference between the two terms after all, else this name would make no sense.

Last edited by Gorf; 30 April 2020 at 00:08.
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Old 29 April 2020, 23:20   #1178
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And words have meanings. Not owning =/= equal not knowing. Non-existent =/= millions of units sold. Video game crash =/= some company changing ownership. And so on and on...
Thanks for the link! That proves exactly my point!

Famicom (NES):
North America: 34 Million (since 85)
Japan: 19 Million (since 83)
whole Europe: 8.5 Million (since 86)

But please have a look at the date: not relevant for the first half of the 80s! not relevant for the video game crash and not relevant the concept of the amiga...

ok - Atari 2600:

Oops - not even in that list ... only for Germany with 0.5 Million.
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Old 30 April 2020, 02:06   #1179
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Most recent posts seem to be more about bickering than really on-topic. Either start a new thread (and keep it nice!) or we might have to close this one.
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Old 28 June 2020, 01:22   #1180
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It should have been an '030' 25Mhz machine to compete with the PC. Forget about MD/SNES. It was all about PC Doom and to a lesser degree Wing Commander.
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