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Old 15 May 2020, 09:46   #21
grond
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
there would be a new mask and production line and should by done at a much smaller manufacturing process.. Yea its some work to shrink a design, but then you get a whole lot more chips from one wafer so its usually worth it
I don't think a shrink is worth it in this kind of business. But perhaps they use the same layout on a finer (less outdated) process (if the actually produce at all and not just sell old stock). Producing the same layout on a finer node is often a first step in conventional chip production when moving from one node to the next before doing the shrink and also leads to better chip parameters as the newer process more precisely recreates the layout dimensions on the actual semiconductor.
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Old 16 May 2020, 02:18   #22
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Originally Posted by grond View Post
I don't think a shrink is worth it in this kind of business. But perhaps they use the same layout on a finer (less outdated) process (if the actually produce at all and not just sell old stock). Producing the same layout on a finer node is often a first step in conventional chip production when moving from one node to the next before doing the shrink and also leads to better chip parameters as the newer process more precisely recreates the layout dimensions on the actual semiconductor.
So does that mean there is a chance that newly made, but not redesigned, chips might be manufactured smaller than Freescale did, and thus be able to run cooler and faster. But all depending on how advanced their production is. Well 12 years is a long time for a company to catch up to big boy chip production quality.

If they can produce 060's at Pentium 233 grade then those chips might be worth the extreme prices. 50->233MHz would be one serious overclock on the front side bus! I wonder if there is any way to make a new card that would talk to such a fast bus.

I've been looking at a 64 bit PPC North Bridge chip which can do 183MHz on CPU bus (with 366MHz DDR1 memory bus). The Galileo GD64360. If it could be persuaded to speak 32 bit data to the CPU then it would be an option.

Last edited by PurpleMelbourne; 16 May 2020 at 02:21. Reason: Extra details
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Old 16 May 2020, 07:01   #23
Konrad
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Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki View Post
Indeed...

Qty In Stock: 1
(...)
There is a minimum quantity of 1 and a maximum quantity of 1 for this product.
exeler0 meant the stock at his digipart link.
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Old 16 May 2020, 10:55   #24
grond
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So does that mean there is a chance that newly made, but not redesigned, chips might be manufactured smaller than Freescale did, and thus be able to run cooler and faster.
No, it means that using the original layout and a more modern production fab one would get more of the "good" chips that you already got with the old process. The best 060s run at about a 100 MHz. Perhaps one out of twenty chips can run that fast. Producing the same layout on a better fab would perhaps give you one out of five chips that can run at 100 MHz.

As I said, this is usually the first step you make when moving to a new node. Only then you do a design shrink.
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Old 16 May 2020, 13:30   #25
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These wont be newly fabricated parts, they will be the original Motorola die, still on wafers. Rochester electronics will remove them from the wafer and package them in a PGA package and datestamp them accordingly.

A process change for a microprocessor to a smaller geometry would not be acceptable to their customers. My employers uses Rochester and a few other long lifecycle suppliers of Microprocessors. If the CPU was changed to a new process, we would have to re-certify the product, depending on the impact of any changes, that could cost up to £1 million. With the older microprocessor families, a die shrink could really screw up the timing and signal integrity of an existing PCB. Newer processors with controlled impedance outputs, e.g. PowerPC with DDR, PCIe, SATA are easier to accept as they are tighter controlled and they have been re-certified easier at lower cost.

Most customers would be in a similar situation and would not want the re-certification costs, we want to buy more of the same.
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Old 16 May 2020, 15:54   #26
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they will be the original Motorola die, still on wafers. Rochester electronics will remove them from the wafer and package them in a PGA package and datestamp them accordingly.
I doubt it is even that. They'll have been packaged, tested, sorted and put into trays.

Packages (particularly ceramic), testers, load boards and test programs go obsolete and/or go missing. They wouldn't keep wafers on ice for decades.

Last edited by alexh; 16 May 2020 at 16:52.
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