Building a 1200 from a 500

Scatter · 30 December 2004, 16:25

Ok, some of these questions might seem somewhat silly, so excuse my noob-ness...

Rightio, I have an original 500 with a half meg expansion. About five minutes ago the 's' key stopped working on the keyboard (the ':' key is extremely dodgy, and the decimal point on the numeric pad is buggered too). Given that I've only had the thing since christmas (

) I'm pretty miffed. So i did the ebay thang, where I found a 1200 keyboard, mobo, and case available in seperate auctions.

So the questions are - if i bought these three items, combined with my current 500, would i have the all the necessary hardware to build a 1200? would i even need the case, or would it all fit in the 500s case? if i only won the keyboard auction, would that be a suitable replacement for my current keyboard?

lloyd · 30 December 2004, 18:53

I think the keyboard has a different connector on it - been a while since I had a 500 to look at. The floppy disk drive should be okay tho. Your half meg expansion is gonna be redundant tho cos the A1200 ain't gonna wanna know it. The keyboard an the A500 has wires with a connector block if memory serves me right - the A1200 (and 600) has a membrane type ribbon of plastic and conductive tracks on it. Maybe an adaptor could be built/purchased? Mouse, joysticks and PSU should be ok with the 1200.

BippyM · 30 December 2004, 19:06

No its not compatible, the a500 has the keyboard controller on the actual keyboard (there is a pcb with some electronics on it) where-as the 1200 keyboard controller is on the 1200 motherboard

You will need to find an a500 keyboard I'm afraid!

Scatter · 30 December 2004, 19:12

Sweet. Thanks for the info. Looks like bidding for all three items then...

In regards to an HD - there are HD cables available too:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW

I'm not sure about miggy HDs. Can you basically use any >4gb IDE drive in a 1200?

lpopman · 31 December 2004, 00:34

It's best to use a HD of 4 Gb or less in the A1200 unless you are running IIRC AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9.
Anything written over the 4 Gb mark wraps around and corrupts the 1st 4 gigs.

But basically, yeah any 2.5" IDE drive will do.

Scatter · 01 January 2005, 07:25

Yep, thought as much.

Ok, another question - just what exactly does this do:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WD2V ?

I've seen you guys talking a fair bit about accelerators, but bearing in mind that I'll basically be using this rig for running classic games from a fairly small HD, do I need to think about getting the accelerator? What benefit will it be, and will a stock standard 1200 with an 800mb HD run games just fine without it?

I really appreciate the help.

Thanks.

Peanutuk · 01 January 2005, 12:13

It's a bit ddgy that the seller gives no details on the 'board'. Also it looks like the processer sockets are empty so it might not do anything noticable, i can't see any places where you could insert sim memory.

also bare in mind that if you are going to use a A1200 case it won't fit a A500 floppy drive inside it. A500 drives are much bulkier.

Scatter · 01 January 2005, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanutuk

also bare in mind that if you are going to use a A1200 case it won't fit a A500 floppy drive inside it. A500 drives are much bulkier.

oh oh. I don't like the osund of this...

Judging by the way you've said that, I'm assuming the 1200 keyboard and mobo would fit inside a 500 case. If that's so, will the HD fit inside it too (I am assuming that there is room inside the 1200 case for the HD and that I won't have to buy casing and make it an external)?

Good to know that accelerator is worth missing, as that auction ends nearly a week before the mobo one does.

Again, I appreciate the help from you guys.

Jope · 02 January 2005, 19:47

You can use the A1200's keyboard mechanism to fix the A500's keyboard.

They are mechanically the same, so you can swap the black plastic board with the keys between the two chassies..

If you don't have a spare keyboard yet, then you can remove the said black board off your keyboard, take a piece of paper from your printer, press down on a dead key and wipe the rubber pad beneath the key with the paper.. Be careful that you don't cut off pieces of the rubber pad with the paper's sharp edge!

All rubber pads that are shiny are worn, a couple of wipes will do to make the pad dull again and it'll work like new. I've fixed numerous Mitsumi keyboards with this trick.

Scatter · 02 January 2005, 19:50

actually, buying what i can, and raping the 500 for the parts to build a 1200 is my preferred option. reading akiras HD posts had me convinced quite quickly

the 500 keyboard is knackered - too many keys don't work to make it worthwhile trying to fix.

Jope · 02 January 2005, 19:58

Heh, using the paper trick you can do all the keys in one go.. Not really a matter of there being too many broken keys.

Seriously, all you can take from the A500 to use in the A1200 are the keyboard, the power supply and the floppy drive, which won't properly fit in the A1200's case.

Also, you'll need to solder the data and clock wires from the A500 keyboard's controller onto the A1200's mobo to make it work, not a direct replacement!

The plastic flexi cable running from the A500 keyboard's contact sheet to the controller PCB in the corner is basically the same as the long flexi cable that comes out the rear of the A1200's keyboard (sans controller), but it's too short and ~10cm too far right.

Basically:
- fix the A500
or
- buy a working A1200. :-)

Of course I'm in no position to make your life's choices for you, but I'm just trying to make life easier for you.. :-)

Scatter · 03 January 2005, 07:43

Yeah, I know that I won't actually be taking much from the 500. I'm essentially buying the 1200 mobo, keyboard, case, a 2.5" 1GB HD (plus a caddy for it?? does it need one?)... which leaves me taking just the cabling & mouse, the led light (original red led) and the floppy from the 500.

now, unless i am missing something, that should give me a fully working 1200, and it is costing me way less than buying one already built, and i'll get the fun of building it

Jope · 04 January 2005, 13:13

Well, go for it if you feel like it.. :-)

The HD needs a caddy.

Are you sure that'll be cheaper than a normal A1200? I hear bare machines can be had very cheaply in the UK, maybe you can source one from there since you're already ordering overseas..

Scatter · 05 January 2005, 08:32

i haven't been able to find a bare 1200, and the last 1200 i saw on ebay went for nearly A$350 (about 180 quid) plus postage, whereas i am getting the parts I need to build one for around 60 quid including postage. a considerable difference, and more fun, coz i get to build the machine myself...

which brings me to the next noobness question.

does the 1200 need an accelerator of some sort to add memory, or is there a slot on the mobo for some? i imagine i will have some probs running a lot of stuff from a HD with only the basic 2mb of memory...

Jope · 05 January 2005, 10:20

You'd be better off with an accelerator right away, as the fastmem-only boards fit in the same slot.

2MB is not enough.

Scatter · 05 January 2005, 13:03

gracias

gklinger · 28 August 2008, 21:07

*bump*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jope

The plastic flexi cable running from the A500 keyboard's contact sheet to the controller PCB in the corner is basically the same as the long flexi cable that comes out the rear of the A1200's keyboard (sans controller), but it's too short and ~10cm too far right.

Can you think of any practical way to extend the 500's flexi-cable so that it could be used in a 1200?

I was thinking of desoldering the keyboard connector from the 1200's motherboard and soldering on some kind of standard connector that supports 31 wires and then putting a second such connector on some perfboard and wiring it to the keyboard connector I removed earlier. That would let me run a standard cable of some sort between the motherboard and the perfboard into which I could plug the 500's keyboard.

tonyyeb · 28 August 2008, 21:12

3 year 8 month bump to be precise!

Zetr0 · 28 August 2008, 21:30

@Gklinger

there is are other ways... first check your revision of A1200 motherboard. if you have a 2B board, you may well notice the 5 pin solder header just above and to the right of trapdoor connector.

this can be populated with pins for direct connection to an A500 keyboard.

The other method would be to CUT two traces on the motherboard and connect four wires to the MPU

if you want i will rustle up some schematics

gklinger · 28 August 2008, 21:30

/me bows

I'm desperately looking for a solution to my problem and since my thread ain't exactly on fire I thought I'd try reviving this one.

30 December 2004, 16:25	#1
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	Building a 1200 from a 500 Ok, some of these questions might seem somewhat silly, so excuse my noob-ness... Rightio, I have an original 500 with a half meg expansion. About five minutes ago the 's' key stopped working on the keyboard (the ':' key is extremely dodgy, and the decimal point on the numeric pad is buggered too). Given that I've only had the thing since christmas () I'm pretty miffed. So i did the ebay thang, where I found a 1200 keyboard, mobo, and case available in seperate auctions. So the questions are - if i bought these three items, combined with my current 500, would i have the all the necessary hardware to build a 1200? would i even need the case, or would it all fit in the 500s case? if i only won the keyboard auction, would that be a suitable replacement for my current keyboard?

28 August 2008, 21:30	#20
gklinger Vegetable Lasagna Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toronto, CANADA Age: 54 Posts: 711	/me bows I'm desperately looking for a solution to my problem and since my thread ain't exactly on fire I thought I'd try reviving this one. Last edited by gklinger; 28 August 2008 at 22:04.

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30 December 2004, 18:53	#2
lloyd Mehh :D Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Bristol, SW UK Age: 61 Posts: 242	I think the keyboard has a different connector on it - been a while since I had a 500 to look at. The floppy disk drive should be okay tho. Your half meg expansion is gonna be redundant tho cos the A1200 ain't gonna wanna know it. The keyboard an the A500 has wires with a connector block if memory serves me right - the A1200 (and 600) has a membrane type ribbon of plastic and conductive tracks on it. Maybe an adaptor could be built/purchased? Mouse, joysticks and PSU should be ok with the 1200.

30 December 2004, 19:06	#3
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	No its not compatible, the a500 has the keyboard controller on the actual keyboard (there is a pcb with some electronics on it) where-as the 1200 keyboard controller is on the 1200 motherboard You will need to find an a500 keyboard I'm afraid!

30 December 2004, 19:12	#4
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	Sweet. Thanks for the info. Looks like bidding for all three items then... In regards to an HD - there are HD cables available too: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW I'm not sure about miggy HDs. Can you basically use any >4gb IDE drive in a 1200?

31 December 2004, 00:34	#5
lpopman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Coventry / England Age: 53 Posts: 37	It's best to use a HD of 4 Gb or less in the A1200 unless you are running IIRC AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9. Anything written over the 4 Gb mark wraps around and corrupts the 1st 4 gigs. But basically, yeah any 2.5" IDE drive will do.

01 January 2005, 07:25	#6
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	Yep, thought as much. Ok, another question - just what exactly does this do: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WD2V ? I've seen you guys talking a fair bit about accelerators, but bearing in mind that I'll basically be using this rig for running classic games from a fairly small HD, do I need to think about getting the accelerator? What benefit will it be, and will a stock standard 1200 with an 800mb HD run games just fine without it? I really appreciate the help. Thanks.

01 January 2005, 12:13	#7
Peanutuk Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: The North, UK Age: 45 Posts: 1,082	It's a bit ddgy that the seller gives no details on the 'board'. Also it looks like the processer sockets are empty so it might not do anything noticable, i can't see any places where you could insert sim memory. also bare in mind that if you are going to use a A1200 case it won't fit a A500 floppy drive inside it. A500 drives are much bulkier.

02 January 2005, 19:47	#9
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,865	You can use the A1200's keyboard mechanism to fix the A500's keyboard. They are mechanically the same, so you can swap the black plastic board with the keys between the two chassies.. If you don't have a spare keyboard yet, then you can remove the said black board off your keyboard, take a piece of paper from your printer, press down on a dead key and wipe the rubber pad beneath the key with the paper.. Be careful that you don't cut off pieces of the rubber pad with the paper's sharp edge! All rubber pads that are shiny are worn, a couple of wipes will do to make the pad dull again and it'll work like new. I've fixed numerous Mitsumi keyboards with this trick.

02 January 2005, 19:50	#10
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	actually, buying what i can, and raping the 500 for the parts to build a 1200 is my preferred option. reading akiras HD posts had me convinced quite quickly the 500 keyboard is knackered - too many keys don't work to make it worthwhile trying to fix.

02 January 2005, 19:58	#11
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,865	Heh, using the paper trick you can do all the keys in one go.. Not really a matter of there being too many broken keys. Seriously, all you can take from the A500 to use in the A1200 are the keyboard, the power supply and the floppy drive, which won't properly fit in the A1200's case. Also, you'll need to solder the data and clock wires from the A500 keyboard's controller onto the A1200's mobo to make it work, not a direct replacement! The plastic flexi cable running from the A500 keyboard's contact sheet to the controller PCB in the corner is basically the same as the long flexi cable that comes out the rear of the A1200's keyboard (sans controller), but it's too short and ~10cm too far right. Basically: - fix the A500 or - buy a working A1200. :-) Of course I'm in no position to make your life's choices for you, but I'm just trying to make life easier for you.. :-)

03 January 2005, 07:43	#12
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	Yeah, I know that I won't actually be taking much from the 500. I'm essentially buying the 1200 mobo, keyboard, case, a 2.5" 1GB HD (plus a caddy for it?? does it need one?)... which leaves me taking just the cabling & mouse, the led light (original red led) and the floppy from the 500. now, unless i am missing something, that should give me a fully working 1200, and it is costing me way less than buying one already built, and i'll get the fun of building it

04 January 2005, 13:13	#13
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,865	Well, go for it if you feel like it.. :-) The HD needs a caddy. Are you sure that'll be cheaper than a normal A1200? I hear bare machines can be had very cheaply in the UK, maybe you can source one from there since you're already ordering overseas..

05 January 2005, 08:32	#14
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	i haven't been able to find a bare 1200, and the last 1200 i saw on ebay went for nearly A$350 (about 180 quid) plus postage, whereas i am getting the parts I need to build one for around 60 quid including postage. a considerable difference, and more fun, coz i get to build the machine myself... which brings me to the next noobness question. does the 1200 need an accelerator of some sort to add memory, or is there a slot on the mobo for some? i imagine i will have some probs running a lot of stuff from a HD with only the basic 2mb of memory...

05 January 2005, 10:20	#15
Jope - Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Helsinki / Finland Age: 43 Posts: 9,865	You'd be better off with an accelerator right away, as the fastmem-only boards fit in the same slot. 2MB is not enough.

05 January 2005, 13:03	#16
Scatter Super Cars II Freak Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Age: 49 Posts: 22	gracias

28 August 2008, 21:12	#18
tonyyeb Has the Amiga bug again Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hull, UK Age: 43 Posts: 791	3 year 8 month bump to be precise!

28 August 2008, 21:30	#19
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	@Gklinger there is are other ways... first check your revision of A1200 motherboard. if you have a 2B board, you may well notice the 5 pin solder header just above and to the right of trapdoor connector. this can be populated with pins for direct connection to an A500 keyboard. The other method would be to CUT two traces on the motherboard and connect four wires to the MPU if you want i will rustle up some schematics

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