Better Pause feature

[skateblind]

It is up to Toni what he wants to do, but maybe give him a break from the Deli-request-athon.

[Toni Wilen]

NO.

You never change very common behavior just because it feels better.

[TCD]

Agreed. Wouldn't 'feel' right at my end the other way around for example.

[skateblind]

If we do not change common behaviour for the good, then for example, war would continue, the destruction of our planet would continue and you will become crazy from all these requests.

[NewDeli]

With some very neat external tool, I have the possibility to prevent any program from being loaded in memory more than once, so it's OK if he ignores the request about one instance of WinUAE only for now. This better pause thingie is my "last request" before v2.2 is released, and I PM'd Toni before making the additional switching display modes one.

Feel free to consider it otherwise, but it doesn't appear to me as completely nonsensical.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by NewDeli

Feel free to consider it otherwise, but it doesn't appear to me as completely nonsensical.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

You never change very common behavior just because it feels better.

Answered? I think you made your point, but that doesn't mean it has to be implemented now, nor that it should be the default behaviour. Patience is a real virtue.

[NewDeli]

I hadn't read Toni's reply when I posted #45, I was simply replying to Skateblind's remark about the abundance of requests. I am a patient man : I have waited 5 years for Datastorm v1.2 slave update (just joking, I wasn't even aware of WHDload project by that time).

[NewDeli]

Out of curiosity, is it possible for you Toni to briefly explain how the apparently "halted" emulation from hitting F12 differ from normal pause intrinsically, plz ?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by NewDeli

Out of curiosity, is it possible for you Toni to briefly explain how the apparently "halted" emulation from hitting F12 differ from normal pause intrinsically, plz ?

Main emulation loops stops being called, only small message event loop remains active.

Keeping emulation active at the same time is possible but it can cause all kinds of side-effects because it is not designed for that, also because GUI can't be multithreaded (that would open massive can of worms), slow emulation performance means slow GUI performance. (for example GUI will be really unresponsive if emulation runs at 1 fps for some reason..)

Another "Open GUI" shortcut/input event can be added that opens non-halting GUI but it is yet another very low priority feature.

[NewDeli]

I've noticed displaying some branches from the treeview (misc., quickstart...) consume more CPU cycles than others (for a brief period of time of course) but overall showing the GUI, just like hitting pause completely prevents emulation from using the CPU (at least, if we refer to the task manager).

Useless gossip ? May be so... At least, one important question comes to mind should the hypothetic GUI you're evocking not cause any halting : What are the settings which support on the fly modifications ? I assume most of the Host settings (and Floppy drives obviously) do.

Concerning my initial request, I managed to use some kind of macro (my keyboard keys can be reprogrammed) to pause emulation right before the GUI shows up.
I also modified the Esc key behavior so that it pauses emulation right after emulation is resumed.
Result is fine but not perfect, a few frames are drawn before pausing takes place again.
Needless to say, it's not recommended, just another so-so workaround.

Personally, there are fewer and fewer settings which I would need to use the GUI for during emulation, except may be switching D3D <> DirectDraw or enabling / stopping AVI Output on the fly (hint, hint !).

[TCD]

Originally Posted by NewDeli

...or enabling / stopping AVI Output on the fly (hint, hint !).

Ah, always a pleasure to read your humble requests with encouraging smileys Really, don't get why you use a 'mad bashing' here.

[seuden]

If I was Toni I would seriously be thinking of blocking NewDeli's posts. Not because they're not useful but the attitude and unappreciative tone that comes from them.

[NewDeli]

@TCD
EAB smileys don't shine by their variety and expressiveness, I am sure you noticed that. Picking up those two or a pair of others wouldn't make a big difference. Oh, and this one is assumed; isn't it ?

@seuden
There's not much I thought of adding to my last post, really, but again I :

• Exposed the rationale for my initial request (this thread is about pausing emulation, and, until we got Toni's explanation, hitting F12 appeared to be pausing emulation too)
• Agreed about what Toni said about the non-halting GUI being a non-priority feature request of mine (possibly, you didn't get that part, granted it was somehow implicit)
• (tried to) Broaden up the discussion to other on-the-fly useful settings which one would think of modifying without using the GUI

Feel free to participate to that discussion or even report my post(s) if you think I wrote something I wasn't supposed to. Beginning of this thread is mildly confusing, so my apologizes for not willing to discuss your opinion further here, pretty please.

Of course, I am grateful for the explanations and new features, else I wouldn't be curious about some undocumented aspects of WinUAE or using the latest betas.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by NewDeli

@TCD
EAB smileys don't shine by their variety and expressiveness, I am sure you noticed that. Picking up those two or a pair of others wouldn't make a big difference. Oh, and this one is assumed; isn't it ?

If you add to your initial request in a subordinate clause, don't you think that ' !' might not be the first choice of smileys to use? Anyway, already said that made your point here and should wait for the result.

[NewDeli]

I shall wait. Sorry seuden if I sounded like a wag.

One of my projects has something to do with demonstrating only the bright aspects of emulation, and I had noticed that instant pausing + GUI was commonplace in many emulators, which admittedly brings nothing special, but "looks cooler".

I swear I didn't come up with this workaround to enthrall Toni but to conclude the thread, especially since there's absolutely no bug for him to squeash this time.

[Toni Wilen]

No answers to "Why" as usual. Because others do it = not an acceptable reason. Because it is cool = not an acceptable reason. It conflicts with old behavior = need even better reasons or alternative option.

Why? "I can use GUI while emulation is running" is worst answer ever.

What are you going to do with this feature if it is implemented?

[seuden]

No need to apologise to me NewDeli I'm just saying what I see.

Tbh, I don't actually get what you're trying to achieve with this proposed feature, maybe because I couldn't care less I dunno. Good luck getting it implemented

[NewDeli]

OK, I gave it some thought and here's the proposed "roadmap". After v2.2 is released, I'll make a new, clean thread about requesting some other input events. Now if for some reason, WinUAE users don't feel like posting about how THEY would make use of additional input events, that's just too bad 'cause purpose of such requests is making things easier for many people not just for me.

After v2.3 or v2.4 is released, I'll make a new clean thread about input events which would have some consequence on showing GUI (F12) behavior. Assuming Toni doesn't have too much to deal with in Prb. WinUAE since then.

Now my reply to him
To me, hitting F12 in WinUAE shows the GUI as expected, but incidentally de facto pauses emulation (as far as paused games traditionally have sound and scrolling disabled, and as noticed in the task manager in terms of CPU usage), so it should mention "pause" in window mode for people presented with solely the second monitor, not to interpret it as if a freezing bug had occurred.

You offered to make a non-pausing GUI input event (later on), which would make the whole thing even better, I dare to say more logical (had not thought about it in the first place).
That could be interpreted as if you somehow agreed emulation does not necessarily needs to be resumed by hitting F12 again, couldn't it ? Why would that be better in my opinion ? Because unattended resumed emulation tends to break people's concentration when recording output, if like me they would rather make it a two steps process :

1. First to make adjustments in the GUI right before clicking the AVI output enabled button
2. Then actually resuming emulation e.g. with an assigned gamepad button to be ready for action, if it's a game

It would be just like a movie Director's well-known duty :
First the "clap", then "moteur" !

When I look at some game screenshot made in window mode, which some ol'timers posted, emulation is usually paused, may be some newbie would have thought of posting the screenshot by hitting F12 and using the Save screenshot button if he or she wasn't aware of the many shortcuts WinUAE supports. In this case, their screenshot would look less professional (as if they used print screen).
At any rate, the show GUI behavior modifications are mostly about "perceived best behavior" so for the moment, I can merely say that it would appear to me, the best thing to implement next.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by NewDeli

Now if for some reason, WinUAE users don't feel like posting about how THEY would make use of additional input events, that's just too bad 'cause purpose of such requests is making things easier for many people not just for me.

1,665 views. Not many chimed in that's true. You think people won't tell if it would be a useful feature for them? Well, they do in other threads...

[kkgarbod]

I like the current use of F12 as a 'pause' button. As some games don't offer it. And is a great feature if the cooldrinks/beer/coffee runs out, and you need to go buy a six-pack