OS4 compatible UAE expansion development status

[Toni Wilen]

Small update earlier today: possible small performance improvement.

[Michael]

8029 PCI no longer available under OS4?

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Michael

8029 PCI no longer available under OS4?

FAILURE DETECTED: All required information is missing. (Of course it is available). Crystal ball says you tried to use far too much Z3 space for RAM and RTG.

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by Aegis

That's gotta be WinUAE doing that though?? See the video here.

I've seen the video, included files into your Test_Image.zip, on OS4 if you copied to a HardFile or HD OS4 image files work perfectly, on OS3 instead I had found that described above.

Now I repeated the steps on your OS4, and I found that the incompatibility problem is just "dummy", In fact, if the same file copied into RAM, HD 0S4, or HardFile UAE external, the image file can be seen perfectly. The error is due to the slowness of the Directory Filesystem, I am attaching a video showing what was said:

[ Show youtube player ] (watch the video to the end)

[Toni Wilen]

What are you talking about? Speed (or lack of it) has nothing to do with it. You can read files fine from even slower media like floppy disks..

IT IS A BUG! It only happens when timing is exactly right (or wrong). Problem not happening in your tests does not mean anything at all. Please, stop this, this is not the first time you reported some bug as being not a problem because you couldn't duplicate it!

[ccapublic]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Attach some. (m68k JIT is out of scope obviously, not OS4 related )

Here attached configurations and logs with latest winuae compiled today.

OK1_xxx : Working configuration for reference (NOJIT / 32MB VRAM / 256MB Z3 FAST)

OK2_xxx : Second working configuration (same as above but 128MB Z3 FAST)

NOK1_xxx : Crashing. Same as OK2 but with 68k JIT. You said you did not care about 68k jit for os4 as it is a ppc only os but I found this crash weird so attached it just in case

NOK2_xxx : Hanging (or looping on some stuff as I can see windows desktop flashing regularly as if d3d screen got closed and reopened). Same as OK2 but 512MB z3fast

Note : I also got crashing confs with nojit but can't reproduce. Only hangs here.

EDIT : On my Windows 7 64bits with i7-3720 and 8GB RAM, Same configurations never hang or crash, whether 68k JIT is on or off, and even with 64MB VRAM and 768MB Z3FAST.

Thanks Toni !

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Small update earlier today: possible small performance improvement.

Definitely getting quicker - uaehf.device support feels nearly as fast as Cyberstorm SCSI now - is it my imagination or does uaegfx feel snappier too?

[AMIGASYSTEM]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

IT IS A BUG!

I have not talked about bugs, unfortunately my English is misinterpreted, i said that the IFF files copied "Directory Filesystem" manifests the problem raised by the user Aegis, while the file IFF copied on HardFile It does not have this problem, then I said that the only difference noted between directory "Directory Filesystem" and "HardFile" just the speed; if if you watch the video until the end you will understand what I meant.

[themamboman]

Just to be clear, in the uae configuration file, we need to add both:

uaeboard=full+indirect
and
uaeboard_mode=1

as well as putting the uae-configuration file into the same folder as the winaue executable?

Then, we can use uae zorro II/III as well as host folders instead of hdfs?

Thanks!

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by themamboman

Just to be clear,...

Just uaeboard=full+indirect added to your config (doesn't matter where the config is so long as WinUAE's path points to it) plus the 68k UAE monitor in Devs/Monitors.

[Toni Wilen]

Another update that should increase performance even more.

--

Originally Posted by Aegis

Definitely getting quicker - uaehf.device support feels nearly as fast as Cyberstorm SCSI now - is it my imagination or does uaegfx feel snappier too?

Everything that needs traps will be faster (=call Amiga-side code from UAE side)

Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM

I have not talked about bugs, unfortunately my English is misinterpreted, i said that the IFF files copied "Directory Filesystem" manifests the problem raised by the user Aegis, while the file IFF copied on HardFile It does not have this problem, then I said that the only difference noted between directory "Directory Filesystem" and "HardFile" just the speed; if if you watch the video until the end you will understand what I meant.

I thought you meant whole bug does not exists because some reasons

Originally Posted by themamboman

Just to be clear, in the uae configuration file, we need to add both:

uaeboard=full+indirect
and
uaeboard_mode=1

uaeboard_mode is gone. uaeboard may also change before this becomes part of official betas..

as well as putting the uae-configuration file into the same folder as the winaue executable?

uae-configuration is Amiga executable, put it somewhere in your OS4 installation (if you need to use uae-configuration)

Then, we can use uae zorro II/III as well as host folders instead of hdfs?

Yes but folders are currently a bit too slow. Use them only for sharing data, don't use it to boot OS4.

[Aegis]

Whoa!! That just made a huge difference to PPaint - there's no longer a slow fill/screen redraw when you start it up.

I still have an issue with mouse focus though (you have to click to get the mouse moving when PPaint loads and then on Workbench after you quit) and still no pointer in the WinUAE panel after opening any new screen at a different resolution to the desktop (DOpus exhibits same behaviour for example).

*Edit* uaehf and Cyberstorm SCSI seem pretty much as fast now - hard to tell them apart - great stuff!

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by ccapublic

EDIT : On my Windows 7 64bits with i7-3720 and 8GB RAM, Same configurations never hang or crash, whether 68k JIT is on or off, and even with 64MB VRAM and 768MB Z3FAST.

You are running out of process address space. More than 512M Z3 address space is practically impossible when using 32-bit Windows. It gets even worse if JIT is enabled. Unfortunately it is already too late when memory is starting to run out to do anything else than to quit or crash..

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Aegis

I still have an issue with mouse focus though (you have to click to get the mouse moving when PPaint loads and then on Workbench after you quit) and still no pointer in the WinUAE panel after opening any new screen at a different resolution to the desktop (DOpus exhibits same behaviour for example).

Which PPaint version? And exact steps to reproduce it.

*Edit* uaehf and Cyberstorm SCSI seem pretty much as fast now - hard to tell them apart - great stuff!

I think that was last easy speed up fix. We'll see..

[ccapublic]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

You are running out of process address space...

Thanks for having taken time to have a look.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Which PPaint version? And exact steps to reproduce it.

You can do it with DOpus 4 included with AmigaOS 4.1

1) I'm running full-window, 16-bit @ 1440x1080
2) Open DOpus, right-click/Project/Configure
3) Select Screen/Screenmode
4) I select 720x540 (half current res) 16-bit - Ok/Use
5) When the screenmode changes my pointer is frozen until I click
6) When I quit DOpus, pointer is frozen again until I click
7) Now if I hit F12, there's no mouse pointer for WinUAE's panel - I have tab through it.

*Edit* current config:

[Aegis]

Toni - please take a look at this thread: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment....p=36709#p36709

[Toni Wilen]

Z3 RAM stuff has been mentioned dozens of times already since PPC support was added. Nothing has happened. It is nothing new. It is trivial update = it is about politics, not about technical reasons.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Z3 RAM stuff has been mentioned dozens of times already since PPC support was added. Nothing has happened. It is nothing new. It is trivial update = it is about politics, not about technical reasons.

Not saying that you're wrong (because I don't think you are) but I suspect accommodating WinUAE user requests is way down their list of priorities at the moment since A-Eon's sitting on a bunch of Cyrus boards they can't sell until AOS is ready for it. I'm hopeful we'll see Z3 support eventually once Hyperion turns their attention back to more general 4.x updates.

*Edit* also, clearly from that thread, some of the developers aren't aware of benefits Z3 support would bring to UAE since they're considering it from a hardware perspective.

In the meantime it seems they're happy to answer any questions you might have which can only be good for the work you're currently doing.

There's also ways of squeezing more free RAM out of Classic OS 4.1 - I'm up to around 90MB now and I'll write a detailed guide once 3.3.x is released so that users can make the most of what's currently available.

Lastly, I'd suggest that any readers that are interested in better AOS4 support in WinUAE:

1) make a donation to Toni
2) buy a copy of AOS4FE (if you haven't already)
3) get on the Hyperion forums and state your interest in Z3 support

[Toni Wilen]

Originally Posted by Aegis

Not saying that you're wrong (because I don't think you are) but I suspect accommodating WinUAE user requests is way down their list of priorities at the moment since A-Eon's sitting on a bunch of Cyrus boards they can't sell until AOS is ready for it. I'm hopeful we'll see Z3 support eventually once Hyperion turns their attention back to more general 4.x updates.

Because rumours say it has been done ages ago but it is kept disabled because of reasons.

In the meantime it seems they're happen to answer any questions you might have which can only be good for the work you're currently doing.

<rant>

I am not so sure about that. Yes, developers probably are happy to answer guestions but probably half of answers will be "NDA required" (There is no public API to control what Petunia translates, which would have solved my problem completely and instantly). Or it is not supported. Or why are you doing it that way? Especially low level stuff (that no application developer need to know) seems to be some black magic that should not be talked about. Low level stuff is the interesting part, high level stuff is simple and boring.

When I ask something, I want technical answers, not politics. It is much less annoying to not ask than to ask and get stupid answer. It is easier to just reverse-engineer it (but not in this case because I don't do PPC) It has worked just fine for me so far

Also I expect to get some anti-emulation garbage from some users too. Thats the main reason I only post in EAB. Signal to noise ratio is very good here. Not that good in other public Amiga forums. (There is far too many so called experts that only repeat myths that are known to be wrong 10+ years ago or they are stuck in the past and think PCs are still the same they were in 1990s and so on..)

</rant>