17 February 2010, 21:41 | #41 | |
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Pushing the base ST is actually pretty complex as it lacks hw scrolling, blitter etc. There is some *really* technical stuff out there on the ST. 50 hz overscan, 8 way scrolling mapper with a 4 channel module playing on the Dark side of the spoon demo for instance. That all requires beam synchronous code, fiddling with the sync mode register at exact places on the screen to open borders and setting the low byte of the screen address. The Amiga isn't that complex to be honest. Coming from the ST you can pick it up pretty fast but the ST would be easier to learn as a beginner. The Amiga is a lovely machine at the chip and OS level. It's a work of art but a600 and A1k aside I don't rate the aesthetics of the case design. IMHO it lets the machine down. Each to their own. |
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17 February 2010, 23:12 | #42 |
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Amiga 500!!!. By the way, i think that ataris are cool too
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18 February 2010, 01:17 | #43 |
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yes i understand atarians getin there machines to do tricks that the hardware lacks part of the chalange
i was refering to very first days of a500 when people were still tryin to figure out how to use custom chips and atari games were 8 bit style as was alot of amiga games i was in awe of my amiga a500 1.2 and often looked over to the atari guys to see them the same wachin some smooth scrolling being wowed i can understand what the big fuss about shodow of the beast on amiga was as certain titles pushed the hardware and made you look not a good game just showed off the pre release spread like fire i still love the old doc demo with the demons im not that familiar with st but can imagine you also having simlar memorys of seing somthin push the atari hardware beyond what you thought posible and thats were the relationship is like i think the zx81 is cool because it had mazogs and 3d monster maze lol i think ive waffled long enough now! cool ! Last edited by athiga; 18 February 2010 at 01:29. |
02 March 2010, 18:25 | #44 | |
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And certainly you have to write complex code to make the ST do things it wasn't designed to do, like games with stuff moving around. As a result, many ST coders learned more 68000 tricks and wrote tighter code than most Amiga coders. But the complexity is then in the software, as you mentioned. I guess you don't really mean that the Amiga design wasn't complex, certainly not contrasted by the rudimentary 'off-the-shelf' designs of MSX, ST, PC, etc. |
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02 March 2010, 18:38 | #45 | |
gone
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But then I suppose Tramiel did go to Atari after Commodore and from the sounds of it maybe took some engineers with him... |
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03 March 2010, 01:49 | #46 |
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Except the C64 had some extra registers for common game/VDU features, such as scrolling.
I don't know if there's a link, necessarily - most home computers had no raster interrupt or copper to time things. On the MSX, Spectrum, I could go on... any tricks pulled on the VDU was pulled with CPU-cycle-timing calculations or wait loops from HSYNC signal or similar. |
03 March 2010, 02:57 | #47 |
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for me Atari is a T-Shirt an old man wears to try to be cool, but he actually owned a NES ointsfinger
seriously, Atari computer were ok, well the ST was. alright |
03 March 2010, 08:25 | #48 | |
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Something like Enchanted Lands at 50fps on an ST is more impressive given the limitations of the shifter in a standard ST. The ST has timers which can be used to trigger beam synchronous interrupts, palette split etc. Opening the top/bottom and left borders using timers isn't that tricky. Opening the right hand side involves writing beam sync code. Opening all four borders, playing a four channel mod whilst having a full screen 50fps 8 way mapped scroller... That's impressive for an ST. It's pretty good code. |
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03 March 2010, 10:57 | #49 |
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I compare the ST to Betamax videos - they were probably better but just never caught on. I played on one when I was a nipper and remember thinking that it looked and sounded nice... but the games were pants
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03 March 2010, 11:35 | #50 |
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03 March 2010, 14:02 | #51 |
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Even today the Amiga rules
Fack off Core2Duo and Windows 7 you are not needed The Atari could not come close it was mearly a games console Amiga fights in the playground flew Atari boys eating tarmac and heads flushed down the loo For the Amiga was champion and everybody knew The Curriculum was taught, Amiga inspired The war was won, Amiga stands victorious |
03 March 2010, 14:06 | #52 |
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03 March 2010, 15:42 | #53 |
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Hehe, blinked a bit at that simily too. For it to work, the ST would have to have been better than something and still sell way worse. But both Amiga and ST sold in huge numbers, so...
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03 March 2010, 21:53 | #54 | |
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Have a listen to some modern ST chip music with SID voice. I like it. Another example of getting way more than the spec from a rather weak sound chip Frank |
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04 March 2010, 18:03 | #55 |
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Well, I was a nipper at the time, I haven't heard an ST for many years!
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04 March 2010, 18:11 | #56 | |
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05 March 2010, 03:51 | #57 | |
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The most stunning Amigas were A1000 and A3000, A600 and A1200 were OK too, A4000 and A2000 bland beyond belief but at least they were well built and had great keyboards. Last edited by ImmortalA1000; 05 March 2010 at 03:52. Reason: typo correction |
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05 March 2010, 12:28 | #58 | |
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05 March 2010, 12:31 | #59 |
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Slanted F keys are bloody hideous. A500 looks a dated now but nowhere near as bad as the ST
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05 March 2010, 12:38 | #60 | |
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