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Old 26 October 2020, 16:55   #21
DarrenHD
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Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
There are many differences to the custom chips. VGA chips don't have a copper, and can only show two bitmaps at once, stress on "bitmaps". Thus, if you want "something black" displayed on top of the screen, this "something" has to be actual data - the RAMDAC cannot be selectively turned off there. Thus, this feature just costs a lot of memory containing nothing, and this "nothing" would migrate bitmap data out of the VGA memory just to make room for it, slowing everything else down.

So, in a sense, possible, but I currently do not really see why its worth the effort. If there is a screen behind, and the screen behind can be shown along with the current screen, you can drag. Otherwise, you cannot.
Hi Thomas. I would think the only reason why you would do it would be to make the experience similar to the original chipset functionality, understanding that just dragging down the screen by itself with nothing else there really serves no functional purpose other than "cool, I can drag the screen down".

Thanks for all your answers, and again thank you for the update, it is much appreciated.

Darren
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Old 26 October 2020, 18:24   #22
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It is not only the Prometheus card I am missing, but the entire system around it. I neither have an A3000 nor A4000, leave alone a graphics card old enough to fit in there.
.
Maybe worse another Drive Hardware is all available here prometheus, a3000, a4000, Voodoo Card

Harald
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Old 26 October 2020, 18:38   #23
Thomas Richter
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Could you tell me where to find the updated API documentation, please? I downloaded the new CardDevelop.lha today but the PrivateInclude/CardDevelop.html file doesn't seem to have any mention of the LineCompare register or SetScreenSplit function, which I presume is the function in question?
You find it here: http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/P96 There are two files: Develop.lha for "regular developers willing to use P96", and "CardDevelop.lha" if you want to write drivers for graphics cards. The latter is what you need.
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Old 26 October 2020, 20:07   #24
nogginthenog
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Anyway, I installed P96 3.0 on my A2000 with Cybervision 64/3D and I can't drag the Workbench screen down, like I can under CyberGraphX.
Same card here in my A4000. I thought it might be a RAM issue so changed to 640x256x8bit. Still no luck.

An easy way to clone the WB is to open a file in Multiview and select the 'Use Separate Screen' option.

Last edited by nogginthenog; 26 October 2020 at 20:07. Reason: typo
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Old 26 October 2020, 20:52   #25
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guess I read only the half... but...
... I could drag my Picasso screen down all the time!?

What did I miss?
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Old 26 October 2020, 22:00   #26
DarrenHD
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guess I read only the half... but...
... I could drag my Picasso screen down all the time!?

What did I miss?
In P96 3.0 you can't unless you actually have a second screen open. I guess this should work (I will test it tonight) assuming of course that you have:

1) A supported graphics card/chipset that can actually do screen dragging
2) The card driver/software has been updated to support dragging (new API calls needed)
3) A bunch of other limitations due to the VGA chipsets (see docs/faq)

3rd party cards, which include the 3DFX Voodoo cards, mnt cards (ZZ9000), etc, do not have upgraded drivers yet, so no screen dragging until (or if/when) their drivers are upgraded by the 3rd party suppliers. It was mentioned the developer documentation to do this is free and available.

I would note that this behaviour is *not the same* as the default behaviour of screen dragging with Amiga chips nor with CyberGraphX - both of which allow you to drag the screen down even if no other screens are open.

As was discussed there is really no *benefit* of being able to drag a screen down (with nothing behind it), other than the "cool" factor. You could argue it is part of the "Amiga experience", I guess. Something you would often show friends who had never seen it before. But again, without another screen behind it...it technically isn't buying you anything Although I would personally say I was disappointed after installing P96 3.0 when I tried it and it didn't work.

Darren
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Old 26 October 2020, 22:08   #27
DarrenHD
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Same card here in my A4000. I thought it might be a RAM issue so changed to 640x256x8bit. Still no luck.

An easy way to clone the WB is to open a file in Multiview and select the 'Use Separate Screen' option.
Thank you I shall try this out tonight
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Old 26 October 2020, 22:28   #28
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You find it here: http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/P96 There are two files: Develop.lha for "regular developers willing to use P96", and "CardDevelop.lha" if you want to write drivers for graphics cards. The latter is what you need.
Thanks - I have already downloaded the new CardDevelop.lha - I see the reference implementation in the Cirrus chip but the actual documentation file, PrivateInclude/CardDevelop.html doesn't seem to have been updated - it contains no mention of Line Compare or SetScreenSplit().
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Old 26 October 2020, 22:51   #29
Thomas Richter
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Thanks - I have already downloaded the new CardDevelop.lha - I see the reference implementation in the Cirrus chip but the actual documentation file, PrivateInclude/CardDevelop.html doesn't seem to have been updated - it contains no mention of Line Compare or SetScreenSplit().
Yes, it is updated: From this file:


SetSplitPosition: Synopsis:SetSplitPosition(bi,ypos); Inputs:a0:struct BoardInfo *bi d0.w:ypos This function sets the vertical position at which the screen shall be split. That is, if the line number given by the second argument is reached, the raster pointer shall be reset to address 0. A value of 0 indicates that screen splitting shall be disabled. The rtg.library arranges the screen such that the topmost screen is started at the memory computed by SetPanning(), and the bottommost screen starts at address 0. In particular, the rtg.library ensures that the bottommost screen does not pan and uses the same RGBFormat than the topmost screen. This function is used to implement screen dragging. It is only called if the BIB_VGASCREENSPLIT flag in BoardInfo->Flags is set. This function is new in version 42 (3.0) of the rtg.library.
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Old 27 October 2020, 00:10   #30
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Yes, it is updated: From this file:

Great, thanks for pasting. But I'm still confused because I'm sure that text isn't in the archive that's on the icomp wiki!


Download the lha file at http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/File:CardDevelop.lha dated 24 October 2020, then:
> lha x CardDevelop.lha
> grep -rl Split Picasso96Develop
Picasso96Develop/HardWare/CirrusGD5434.chip.asm
Picasso96Develop/PrivateInclude/boardinfo.i
Picasso96Develop/PrivateInclude/boardinfo.h



The version number at the head of CARDDEVELOP.HTML is 0.9 - is that right?

Edit: MD5 of CardDevelop.lha, in case there's some weird webserver caching glitch going on or something: cb8fa4ab324620b5318616b973e970b5

Last edited by robinsonb5; 27 October 2020 at 00:21.
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Old 27 October 2020, 01:14   #31
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So I tried opening a jpeg on a separate screen and screen dragging still did not work. Not sure what I am doing wrong. I am using a CV3D gfx card.
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Old 27 October 2020, 03:10   #32
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Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
The VA2000 drivers are made by Lucas (mntmn) and not by iComp. The driver API is fully backwards compatible, so the VA2000 will continue to work, but as it has not been updated, there is no screen dragging support for this card at this moment. It would require an updated FPGA core to support this new feature, and an updated driver. Whether Lucas has plans to add such support I do not know. He is aware of the new function, of course, so maybe just ask him politely.

thanks for the info Thomas much appreciated
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Old 27 October 2020, 03:45   #33
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Why isn't UAE supported properly anymore? According to http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/P96 it seems to require copying and renaming of random files, editing of their tooltypes, choosing the wrong graphics card, and then ignoring warnings. Hardly a smooth installation.
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Old 27 October 2020, 07:05   #34
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Why isn't UAE supported properly anymore? According to http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/P96 it seems to require copying and renaming of random files, editing of their tooltypes, choosing the wrong graphics card, and then ignoring warnings. Hardly a smooth installation.
UAE and winUAE and its drivers are not the copyright of iComp.
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Old 27 October 2020, 07:47   #35
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I never said they were.
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Old 27 October 2020, 08:22   #36
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Then the answer is "UAE is supported properly", just not by iComp. Does this answer your question? To install a 3rd party driver, use the P96 installation, select none of the graphics boards offered (no item checked), complete the installation, then follow the installation instructions of the 3rd party.

Last edited by Thomas Richter; 27 October 2020 at 08:35.
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Old 27 October 2020, 08:26   #37
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So I tried opening a jpeg on a separate screen and screen dragging still did not work. Not sure what I am doing wrong. I am using a CV3D gfx card.
I do not know what your workbench screen mode is, and what your picture datatype is, and what the picture is. If the picture is a JPEG, and the datatype is that from 3.1.4, then Multiview will open a true color screen. If your workbench is not a true color screen, then these modes cannot be mixed.
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Old 27 October 2020, 09:06   #38
Minuous
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Then the answer is "UAE is supported properly", just not by iComp. Does this answer your question?
Not really, because P96 supports various boards from various manufacturers, regardless of whether iComp has the copyright on those boards or not. So it seems to be that dislike of emulation is why users of the most-used "board" have to resort to workarounds.

Last edited by Minuous; 27 October 2020 at 09:16.
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Old 27 October 2020, 09:27   #39
Thomas Richter
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Not really, because P96 supports various boards from various manufacturers, regardless of whether iComp has the copyright on those boards or not. So it seems to be that dislike of emulation is why users of the most-used "board" have to resort to workarounds.
That is not the copyright on the board. That is the copyright on the code. There is no conspiracy here concerning emulation or not. Toni was on board during the development, just that iComp cannot include the drivers. The original UAE drivers are (c) Brian King, Cloanto.
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Old 27 October 2020, 09:56   #40
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OK, but if it is just a "generic loader, which is identical for all P96 drivers" how are Brian King and/or Cloanto able to claim copyright on it?
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