Read Amiga Harddisk with WinUae - Page 4

Starglider 2 · 03 July 2019, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Click Add harddrive with the drive connected, quit, attach winuaebootlog.txt.

Thanks Toni. The logs are attached for both drives.

In each instance the drive is seen by Windows Disk Management, showing the correct size (340MB or 540MB), whereas WinUAE does not show the drives as expected.

They are both Caviar and came from the same Team17 A4000, so are of great interest. Thanks!

Toni Wilen · 03 July 2019, 22:33

Drive metadata (identity data) seems to be correct but any read attempt fails with error code 1117 (ERROR_IO_DEVICE: "The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error.").

Perhaps the adapter handles CHS-only drives only partially, for example fails to translate read/write accesses correctly.

Interestingly SCSI ATA passthrough works (at least it appears to work). So far I haven't heard about USB adapter that supports ATA passthrough. Which adapter do you have? I need to find one

Only using ATA passthrough would fix this problem.

Starglider 2 · 03 July 2019, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Perhaps the adapter handles CHS-only drives only partially, for example fails to translate read/write accesses correctly.

Okay, can you recommend one with an Amazon link that would be more successful?

Quote:

Interestingly SCSI ATA passthrough works (at least it appears to work). So far I haven't heard about USB adapter that supports ATA passthrough. Which adapter do you have? I need to find one

Interesting! This is the one.

Quote:

Only using ATA passthrough would fix this problem.

Pardon my n00bness to this side of things, but how exactly could I do that? Or in other words how can I get these drives into WinUAE?

Toni Wilen · 03 July 2019, 23:00

It looks familiar (similar shape but different name). It is possible I didn't have old enough test drives when I tested this stuff previously.

I'll do some more tests later this week.

Toni Wilen · 04 July 2019, 18:46

I found the adapter, it is Delock ("61486 Converter USB 3.0 to SATA/IDE with backup" says at the bottom) but it does not support SCSI ATA passthrough. So that explains why there is no SAT read/write support yet in WinUAE..

Code:

opening device '\\?\usbstor#disk&ven_generic&prod_ata#atapi_device&rev_#20170302&0#{53f56307-b6bf-11d0-94f2-00a0c91efb8b}'
device id string: 'Generic ATA/ATAPI Device 20170302'
IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH_DIRECT: A1.08.0E.00.01.00.00.00.00.EC.00.00. failed 00000079

"Generic ATA/ATAPI Device 20170302".. sounds like crap..

At least your adapter returns the identification of the mounted drive, not some generic string = firmware isn't absolute minimum design..

EDIT: I did more tests with different drives: It refuses to do anything with CHS-only drives. If drive is later (LBA supported), drive name appears and even SAT works. Which won't help this situation..

Starglider 2 · 04 July 2019, 20:13

Ok thanks for digging deeper.

So.... Basically speaking, what can I do to get this working in WinUAE?

Toni Wilen · 04 July 2019, 20:22

Simplest solution probably is to find some Linux PC with mainboard IDE ports and use dd to image the drive.

Or perhaps Windows XP + 3rd party native chipset driver (not built-in MS IDE drivers) with mainboard IDE ports.

Or real Amiga + some other HD where to fit the image. (Serial transfer would take ages)

Starglider 2 · 04 July 2019, 20:27

Ok thank you!

rcman · 04 July 2019, 20:44

I used Ubuntu Linux to backup my SCSI Amiga Drives.
It's pretty easy.

RC

Toni Wilen · 04 July 2019, 20:57

SCSI unfortunately has nothing to do with this issue. SCSI rarely has compatibility problems, even if drive is ancient and controller is new.

Old IDE drives are special case because no USB adapter seems to support ancient CHS-only drives (without ugly adapter specific hacks). Even many mainboard IDE drivers (at least Windows drivers) don't support them.

EDIT: Different IDE ports using different chipsets can also work differently in this situation.

scuzz · 07 July 2019, 00:37

Interesting what hoops you jump through these days to grab stuff for the emulator.

For me I have my Amigas networked and I do use Parallel and Serial networks also. The Serial is called Aminet interestingly enough. Anyway, my Amigas are also kitted out with SCSI via Blizzard/GVPKITS and Squirrels. The beast that manages all my hard drive copying is Graham an A1200 inside an A1500 case. Looks crude but the machine has the easiest system of disk swapping and that is literally I sit the HD on the Blizzard box and connect the IDE to the buffered interface. Generally I just break disks down into 100MB chunks and save stuff to ZIPs or I use Samba and my PCs networked to the Amiga and copy stuff that way. Files are never that large and I have ZIPs mounted on PCs also. SCSI is just added to the chain and copied same way ZIP or network.

Just thought I would throw that in. Kinda unrelated cus I never use an emulator given that I have real Amigas running all the time so no need. In the end you are only trying to access data I would have thought... sorry no idea how the emulator works.

I keep my Amiga archive on an A4000/040 with a massive hard drive and also have copies of the repository on PCs, Zips, CDs, USB sticks and external drives and they are all networked so I can find anything almost instantly.

Quite honestly I would have loved to get my hands on those drives. Would have taken me all of a morning to copy them to PC.

Good luck, and when you are done and if you are thinking of chucking the old drives away then I would be more than happy to have a play. I have several of those Western Digital hard drives. Not bad drives in truth. Quite popular in the day.

Caviar 2850

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz...210618_726.jpg

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz...210618_724.jpg

Graham the 1200 in the 1500

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz..._020718_40.jpg

A very slow Aminet serial network. Does work but really slow.

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz...ust18_0101.htm

Anyway just ignore me.. rambling.

scuzz

sTe · 08 July 2019, 15:11

yeah if you can dd image the disks that would be awesome. Great video btw, looking forward to the next part(s).

k0x · 08 July 2019, 15:23

@Starglider - just make image of those drives under linux asap. Ican help you with that. Just pm me.

renegade · 25 October 2020, 16:35

I am trying to do something similar....

Trying to recover files or make and image of my old Amiga hard drive in my Windows 10 PC and using the latest version of WinUAE. The drive is in a USB dock and it can be seen by Windows disk manager but I cannot access it to load the drive with WinUAE - it does not appear in the drive list (loading as supervisor and using the disable drive safety check parameter). The drive shows up in Windows disk management as "unallocated". Any ideas what is happening here? Drive is a WD Caviar 31000 - see pics.

https://ibb.co/KNzYfj6
https://ibb.co/sKnZnBT
https://ibb.co/f8rRyjh
https://ibb.co/Lvqs5H3
https://ibb.co/y4tn6hL

demolition · 25 October 2020, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade

I am trying to do something similar....
..
The drive shows up in Windows disk management as "unallocated". Any ideas what is happening here? Drive is a WD Caviar 31000 - see pics.

I can't answer why WinUAE doesn't recognize it, but it looks correct in the Windows disk manager. It should show up as uninitialized since Windows doesn't know how to read that format.

Whatever you do, DO NOT PRESS OK on that Initialize prompt or it will delete your data..

Toni Wilen · 25 October 2020, 17:30

Does Windows detect correct size or is it listed as zero byte drive in Disk Manager?

"Zero size" drive issue is very common because no USB adapter supports old CHS-only accessible IDE drives.

renegade · 26 October 2020, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Does Windows detect correct size or is it listed as zero byte drive in Disk Manager?

"Zero size" drive issue is very common because no USB adapter supports old CHS-only accessible IDE drives.

Yes, windows seems to see the size correctly but it cannot seem to access the disk.

When I try and create an image for example I get this error:

My PC is Windows 10 - I tried to copy this with an old IDE drive USB caddy and I get the same error.

Diskpart sees the drive with the correct size:

This is the view in Windows Storage Manager:

Windows sees the partition as not initialised and locks it.

renegade · 26 October 2020, 00:28

This shows the disk missing from WinUAE (Run in Administrator mode)

Toni Wilen · 26 October 2020, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by renegade

This shows the disk missing from WinUAE (Run in Administrator mode)

Check winuaebootlog.txt after clicking "add harddrive" button, it should have error details.

It looks like USB adapter simply isn't compatible with old drives if other imaging tools also return weird errors.

renegade · 27 October 2020, 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

Check winuaebootlog.txt after clicking "add harddrive" button, it should have error details.

It looks like USB adapter simply isn't compatible with old drives if other imaging tools also return weird errors.

Where do I find the winuaebootlog.txt file?

04 July 2019, 18:46	#65
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,626	I found the adapter, it is Delock ("61486 Converter USB 3.0 to SATA/IDE with backup" says at the bottom) but it does not support SCSI ATA passthrough. So that explains why there is no SAT read/write support yet in WinUAE.. Code: opening device '\\?\usbstor#disk&ven_generic&prod_ata#atapi_device&rev_#20170302&0#{53f56307-b6bf-11d0-94f2-00a0c91efb8b}' device id string: 'Generic ATA/ATAPI Device 20170302' IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH_DIRECT: A1.08.0E.00.01.00.00.00.00.EC.00.00. failed 00000079 "Generic ATA/ATAPI Device 20170302".. sounds like crap.. At least your adapter returns the identification of the mounted drive, not some generic string = firmware isn't absolute minimum design.. EDIT: I did more tests with different drives: It refuses to do anything with CHS-only drives. If drive is later (LBA supported), drive name appears and even SAT works. Which won't help this situation.. Last edited by Toni Wilen; 04 July 2019 at 19:01.

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03 July 2019, 22:33	#62
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,626	Drive metadata (identity data) seems to be correct but any read attempt fails with error code 1117 (ERROR_IO_DEVICE: "The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error."). Perhaps the adapter handles CHS-only drives only partially, for example fails to translate read/write accesses correctly. Interestingly SCSI ATA passthrough works (at least it appears to work). So far I haven't heard about USB adapter that supports ATA passthrough. Which adapter do you have? I need to find one Only using ATA passthrough would fix this problem.

03 July 2019, 23:00	#64
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,626	It looks familiar (similar shape but different name). It is possible I didn't have old enough test drives when I tested this stuff previously. I'll do some more tests later this week.

04 July 2019, 20:13	#66
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,147	Ok thanks for digging deeper. So.... Basically speaking, what can I do to get this working in WinUAE?

04 July 2019, 20:22	#67
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,626	Simplest solution probably is to find some Linux PC with mainboard IDE ports and use dd to image the drive. Or perhaps Windows XP + 3rd party native chipset driver (not built-in MS IDE drivers) with mainboard IDE ports. Or real Amiga + some other HD where to fit the image. (Serial transfer would take ages)

04 July 2019, 20:27	#68
Starglider 2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: California Posts: 1,147	Ok thank you!

04 July 2019, 20:44	#69
rcman Long time Amiga Owner Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Uxbridge Canada Age: 53 Posts: 177	I used Ubuntu Linux to backup my SCSI Amiga Drives. It's pretty easy. RC

04 July 2019, 20:57	#70
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,626	SCSI unfortunately has nothing to do with this issue. SCSI rarely has compatibility problems, even if drive is ancient and controller is new. Old IDE drives are special case because no USB adapter seems to support ancient CHS-only drives (without ugly adapter specific hacks). Even many mainboard IDE drivers (at least Windows drivers) don't support them. EDIT: Different IDE ports using different chipsets can also work differently in this situation.

07 July 2019, 00:37	#71
scuzz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: New Forest Posts: 172	Interesting what hoops you jump through these days to grab stuff for the emulator. For me I have my Amigas networked and I do use Parallel and Serial networks also. The Serial is called Aminet interestingly enough. Anyway, my Amigas are also kitted out with SCSI via Blizzard/GVPKITS and Squirrels. The beast that manages all my hard drive copying is Graham an A1200 inside an A1500 case. Looks crude but the machine has the easiest system of disk swapping and that is literally I sit the HD on the Blizzard box and connect the IDE to the buffered interface. Generally I just break disks down into 100MB chunks and save stuff to ZIPs or I use Samba and my PCs networked to the Amiga and copy stuff that way. Files are never that large and I have ZIPs mounted on PCs also. SCSI is just added to the chain and copied same way ZIP or network. Just thought I would throw that in. Kinda unrelated cus I never use an emulator given that I have real Amigas running all the time so no need. In the end you are only trying to access data I would have thought... sorry no idea how the emulator works. I keep my Amiga archive on an A4000/040 with a massive hard drive and also have copies of the repository on PCs, Zips, CDs, USB sticks and external drives and they are all networked so I can find anything almost instantly. Quite honestly I would have loved to get my hands on those drives. Would have taken me all of a morning to copy them to PC. Good luck, and when you are done and if you are thinking of chucking the old drives away then I would be more than happy to have a play. I have several of those Western Digital hard drives. Not bad drives in truth. Quite popular in the day. Caviar 2850 http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz...210618_726.jpg http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz...210618_724.jpg Graham the 1200 in the 1500 http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz..._020718_40.jpg A very slow Aminet serial network. Does work but really slow. http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuz...ust18_0101.htm Anyway just ignore me.. rambling. scuzz

08 July 2019, 15:11	#72
sTe Registered User Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Mansfield Posts: 76	yeah if you can dd image the disks that would be awesome. Great video btw, looking forward to the next part(s).

08 July 2019, 15:23	#73
k0x Registered User Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Ostrava Posts: 116	@Starglider - just make image of those drives under linux asap. Ican help you with that. Just pm me.

25 October 2020, 16:35	#74
renegade Registered User Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland, UK Posts: 6	I am trying to do something similar.... Trying to recover files or make and image of my old Amiga hard drive in my Windows 10 PC and using the latest version of WinUAE. The drive is in a USB dock and it can be seen by Windows disk manager but I cannot access it to load the drive with WinUAE - it does not appear in the drive list (loading as supervisor and using the disable drive safety check parameter). The drive shows up in Windows disk management as "unallocated". Any ideas what is happening here? Drive is a WD Caviar 31000 - see pics. https://ibb.co/KNzYfj6 https://ibb.co/sKnZnBT https://ibb.co/f8rRyjh https://ibb.co/Lvqs5H3 https://ibb.co/y4tn6hL

25 October 2020, 17:30	#76
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 45 Posts: 24,626	Does Windows detect correct size or is it listed as zero byte drive in Disk Manager? "Zero size" drive issue is very common because no USB adapter supports old CHS-only accessible IDE drives.

26 October 2020, 00:28	#78
renegade Registered User Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Lanarkshire, Scotland, UK Posts: 6	This shows the disk missing from WinUAE (Run in Administrator mode)

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