WHDLoad, One-on-One, WinUAE, and running too fast

[rlcarr]

I'm running WinUAE 1.4.6 using the ClassicWB FULL hardfile, upgraded to WB 3.1 and using a 3.1 ROM (from Amiga Forever). (Which reminds me -- THANK YOU, ClassicWB guys!!).

I wanted to try playing one of my favorite games, "Dr J. vs Larry Bird One-on-One" under emulation, so I grabbed the relevant KG pack and put the One-on-One game in place in the emulation environment.

When I clicked on the icon, I got the WHDLoad nag screen (this is my first time ever using WHDLoad, so I haven't registered it yet -- but I will soon) and then the game started. However, it played way, way too fast. I thought that WHDLoad and the slaves are supposed to correct for too-fast CPUs and play the game at the appropriate speed. Am I mistaken about that?

Is the too-fast play I'm seeing because I'm running in WinUAE as opposed to a real Amiga? Because I haven't registered WHDLoad? Because the emulation configuration I'm using is too "powerful" (i'm using ClassicWB.uae)? Or is it something about this specific game and it would run too fast under WHDLoad even on a real Amiga?

I searched here for One-on-One and read the WHDLoad docs over at the WHDLoad site and didn't come across anything bearing on the problem.

[Retro-Nerd]

Try to disable the "JIT" (in CPU and FPU) after you started One-on-One. Or try "Match A500 Speed".

[rlcarr]

I tried all of those and it still ran too fast. But thanks for the suggestion! If it's something about the game, so be it. But I still am curious as to whether or not WHDLoad/slaves try to "slow a game down" appropriately. Or if this is only an issue under an emulator and not on a real Amiga.

[Graham Humphrey]

Have you tried setting the "nocache" tooltype? Might be worth a go.

[rlcarr]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

Have you tried setting the "nocache" tooltype? Might be worth a go.

I tried it. No luck . So perhaps it's something about the game? Like using timing loops instead of calling ROM Wait() routines?

[laser]

one on one doesn't works fine on winuae if you use whdload..it runs out of sync
play the game on winuae from floopy (adf) using the basic A500 config
and remember you need kick 1.2 cause it not works on kick 1.3

[Minuous]

Most WHDLoad games exhibit this behaviour.

You need to set to A500 speed and also do cycle-exact blitter emulation, IIRC.

As to why the slaves don't handle this, I'm not sure. It wouldn't take a lot of testing to reveal such bugs, so the slave authors must be aware of the issue, maybe they are all using stock A500s?

[rlcarr]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Most WHDLoad games exhibit this behaviour.

Does this behavior also happen with WHDLoad games running on actual Amiga hardware, when the processor is a 68020 or higher? Can you get around it with a degrader program, or does that interfere with WHDLoad?

[Graham Humphrey]

Originally Posted by rlcarr

Does this behavior also happen with WHDLoad games running on actual Amiga hardware, when the processor is a 68020 or higher?

This very rarely happens... I use an '040 processor and it does happen on occasion but setting a tooltype like "nocache" generally does the trick.

Not sure how common it is in WinUAE (I assume Minuous' comment was referring to that), I've only tried a few games but they seem to work okay. Have you tried some other games to see how they run?

[rlcarr]

Originally Posted by Graham Humphrey

This very rarely happens...

Ah! That's good to know,

Not sure how common it is in WinUAE (I assume Minuous' comment was referring to that), I've only tried a few games but they seem to work okay. Have you tried some other games to see how they run?

Since my last post I tried Wayne Gretzky Hockey 2 (from a KG pack) and it appeared to run at normal speed. So it looks like it's something specifically about O-o-O.

This now actually brings back some memories. I vaguely recall that way way back when I still had 1.3 on my A2000, when I put an A2620 in it, the game would play fast in a similar way -- things would be too fast, and the places in the game where you'd get a voice (the ref's announcements, the whining from the dude sweeping up the broken backboard), you didn't get a voice.

I should try to find an A2000 kickstart ROM file, so I can try a 3.1 emulation environment doing 68000 emulation (The 3.1 ROMs in Amiga Forever are A4000 ROMs, and when I try to force the emulation down to 68000, I am told it requires at least a 68020. I assume that with 3.1 A2000 ROMs I can run as a 68000, since an actual unaccellerated A2000 could run 3.1, as I recall).

[Ironclaw]

Bah, just use the CPU slider, the further to the left, the slower the emulation is, move it till the speed fits your needs.

Also, have you tried Cycle-exact?, that is important for quite alot of games, they run too fast or too slow, check that one and it could run in normal speed.

[rlcarr]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

Also, have you tried Cycle-exact?, that is important for quite alot of games, they run too fast or too slow, check that one and it could run in normal speed.

Aha! That did the trick. Well, Cycle-Exact plus disabling JIT together did the trick. (The NoCache tooltype on the O-o-O icon isn't needed).

To sum it all up, to have "Dr J. vs. Larry Bird One on One" run correctly under WHDLoad (with WinUAE 1.4.6 and ClassicWB Full, anyways), I ultimately did:
(1) Load the ClassicWB.uae configuration.
(2) On the CPU page, untick the JIT box. (note that I didn't need to pick the A500 mode on the CPU page).
(3) On the Chipset page, tick the Cycle-Exact box.
(4) Hit Start and enjoy the game.

[Graham Humphrey]

Glad you got it sorted

[Ironclaw]

Originally Posted by rlcarr

Aha! That did the trick. Well, Cycle-Exact plus disabling JIT together did the trick. (The NoCache tooltype on the O-o-O icon isn't needed).

To sum it all up, to have "Dr J. vs. Larry Bird One on One" run correctly under WHDLoad (with WinUAE 1.4.6 and ClassicWB Full, anyways), I ultimately did:
(1) Load the ClassicWB.uae configuration.
(2) On the CPU page, untick the JIT box. (note that I didn't need to pick the A500 mode on the CPU page).
(3) On the Chipset page, tick the Cycle-Exact box.
(4) Hit Start and enjoy the game.

I never ever use JIT.... only done it a couple times as there were no other way (those two times) durng the years of using WinUAE, because it seems to cause too many problems.

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

I never ever use JIT.... only done it a couple times as there were no other way (those two times) durng the years of using WinUAE, because it seems to cause too many problems.

You use disk images only, right? You NEED JIT for any emulated AmigaOS, or it's unusable slow.

full game compatibilty + fast emulated Amiga = NOOOO WAY!!!

But Gamebase Amiga+WHDLoad fixes the dilemma.

[Ironclaw]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

You use disk images only, right? You NEED JIT for any emulated AmigaOS, or it's unusable slow.

full game compatibilty + fast emulated Amiga = NOOOO WAY!!!

Well, one of the times I used JIT was for a 3D game, but when recording I got sound delay and the game was running so slow when recording even though it didn't require much of my computer, a bug I think.

Second time was for some big workbench thingy, like Amikit, to play videos etc.... other than that "Fastest possible" or "Adjustable between cpu" does the trick and are stable, no need for JIT in almost anything imo. Many people use it as they know no other way to get speed cuz they don't know about stuff like having 32 bit color mode on, or having cycle-exact off etc.... I'm not 100% sure as it was a while ago, put I played species and AB3DII super smooth (check my recording at RAG) without JIT.

So, I blame slowdowns without JIT to be users lack of experience with WinUAE .

Whdload doesn't give speed increase, only loading speed increase.

[Retro-Nerd]

Bah, that's rubbish IC. Of course you need JIT for CWB, AmiKit etc or it way too slow. Not the games, but the OS operating.

Gamebase Amiga+WHDLoad obsoletes the use of an AmigaOS, it uses WHDRun to start the games. So there is no need for JIT in emulation.

[Ironclaw]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Bah, that's rubbish IC. Of course you need JIT for CWB, AmiKit etc or it way too slow. Not the games, but the OS operating.

Uhm, if you read my post again I said I DID need JIT for bigger OS stuff, like AmiKit.

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Gamebase Amiga+WHDLoad obsoletes the use of an AmigaOS, it uses WHDRun to start the games. So there is no need for JIT in emulation.

Don't quite follow you.. uhm, you say that without GB Amiga+WHDLoad an OS is required? and JIT?. Well, I don't use WHDLoad, but when I did (tried it once), I play the games without JIT. Like I said, no need for JIT in anything except some heavy workbench thingies (OS stuff, like AmiKit)...

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by Ironclaw

Don't quite follow you.. uhm, you say that without GB Amiga+WHDLoad an OS is required? and JIT?. Well, I don't use WHDLoad, but when I did (tried it once), I play the games without JIT. Like I said, no need for JIT in anything except some heavy workbench thingies (OS stuff, like AmiKit)...

As i said before, the OS operating is annoying slow without JIT. You need no JIT if you want to start games in commandline mode (without an OS).

But then you can use Gamebase Amiga+KGWD packs, it's the same but more comfortable.

[Ironclaw]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

As i said before, the OS operating is annoying slow without JIT. You need no JIT if you want to start games in commandline mode (without an OS).

But then you can use Gamebase Amiga+KGWD packs, it's the same but more comfortable.

Bah, playing games through OS is not an option for me, clicking icons or typing stuff.....

Never used Gamebase Amiga (front end, no?), as it's better for me with winuae, more control I think (don't know what gamebase offers). WHDLoad is good for people who want to play games from harddrive to run faster, I mainly play adventure games and put them in RAD instead for equal fast loading speed with the bonus of using savestates aswell.