Micro Machines V3 - Page 2

Shatterhand · 29 April 2003, 05:24

Huh ?

Yeah, in Micro Machines V3, the AI isn't brilliant. They never seem to make any mistakes, but they also never run at full speed to compensate.

But in All Terrain Race, I remember the CPU would do stupid things sometimes, and sometimes it would make very smart things, like taking shortcuts.

This also happened in Nitro, developed by the very same guy.

In Road Rash you can see CPU drones punching each other, and the police punching the CPU drones. Also the CPU drones do crash and fall from the bike.

In GP2 you can also see the CPU doing smart stuff, and sometimes stupid stuff. Though I agree in this one I would like to see the CPU doing more "weird" stuff, you can easily see when they do something stupid, is a programmed stupid thing.

In the Sega CD game "Formula One Beyond the Limit", the CPU cars would spin off or crash in other cars, and they also would do anything to overtake.

In Destruction Derby, each character has it's own way of driving, some try to ram you, others just try to be as fast as possible, other are completely stupid... it's not GREAT, but it's very interesting.

I don't think AI is as bad as you pointed off, is just that some people don't know how to do it properly.

Drake1009 · 29 April 2003, 07:48

The shortcuts in ATR is a matter of it being programmed into the AI that it can take a shortcut at specified points. Some quick evaluation methods decide wether to take the shortcut or not.

Same goes with the other AIs. They still follow the same thing but have been programmed to make mistakes to act human.

7-Zark-7 · 29 April 2003, 14:43

I wasn't commenting on Micro Machine 3 in particular,nor intending to necessarily trash all race car games A.I. in general regarding extremes.

But (for me at least),as an example Gran Turismo on PSX. Whilst playing through all the simulation part of the game & completing all the cups with a friend, we seemed to notice (particularly in the harder stages), that generally the CPU cars would assign 1 designated CPU car as its "golden child", with the rest of the CPU cars generally co-operating to protect this car's lead at all costs without ever challenging it-once past that car you virtually guaranteed 1st place every time.

Now I'm not saying GT was bad, its definitely my favourite race game, but like most gameplay aspects with pursuits of eye candy 3D visuals or ultra realism, I just feel its an opportunity waiting to be exploited and expanded upon-who knows, maybe Geoff Crammond will look at that with the so-called Stunt Car Racer sequel idea.

I'm no expert, & obviously it'd be torture trying to create a "realistic" A.I., but its just a thought that for the racers I've seen, there still doesn't "feel" a genuine individuality about the CPU A.I. yet.

Shatterhand · 30 April 2003, 05:12

I haven't played GT that much (And probably won't anymore.. one memory card of mine just died with my GT savegame and also savegames of Tomb Raider IV with more than 14 hours of play

), but yes, I've noticed this too.

Yes, I know in ATR the cars are programmed to shortcut in specific points, or in Nitro they are programmed to make mistakes to look like humans. In overhead racing games, the AI basically follows a racing line, or a group of racing lines, choosing the best (or random) line for that moment.

Yet, you can see the difference between the AI in ATR and in Micro Machines. I think it still will take a LONG time 'til we see a human-like A.I. in a video-game, but what we have today is pretty good IMO.

Drake1009 · 30 April 2003, 07:49

If they cut back on the eyecandy and concentrated on the AI they might be able to make a believeable one in the situation the game is supposed to be in.

They were onto something in Half-life with the marine AI. Those guys knew (in comparison to most counter strike players) that if you were defending something it was nice to use the cover provided. Only run out when you think you've mortally wounded the enemy or if you're sending out a scout.

Fred the Fop · 19 July 2003, 03:19

Nothing but nothing compares to the NES version!

Amiga1992 · 19 July 2003, 05:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Frederic
Nothing but nothing compares to the NES version!

I must admit I was interested in this version, the *original* one, but I have to say that the Amiga game pishes all over it from sky high.

It's got the same killer gameplay, but with much revamped graphics and sound.

Not like the cack Battletoads port, which is way, way inferior to the NES original.

Fred the Fop · 19 July 2003, 05:31

No the Amiga version is inferior. It's about crisp tightness of controls for me, and the Amiga version is wonderful, of course. But It does not stack up in that department.
Yes, Battletoads rawks!

blackcornflake · 19 July 2003, 13:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Frederic
Yes, Battletoads rawks!

But like Akira says, not on the Amiga it doesn't. Not even on the CD32. Shame.

The Megadrive version is cool.

Fred the Fop · 19 July 2003, 18:19

The Megadrive version was pretty neat.

Shatterhand · 20 July 2003, 15:54

I still can't believe they could fuck up so much Battletoads. It wasn't a hard game to convert.

The best version of Micro Machines is the Miggy one.

Fred the Fop · 20 July 2003, 17:45

Too bad it never made it to the MSX

Shatterhand · 20 July 2003, 23:44

Very true.

. Well, I only know one game by Codemasters for the MSX, so it's no surprise. I think only their very first game, BMX Simulator, was published for the MSX. (I once read an interview with them, saying this game was their first game ever).

And before anyone says, YES, the MSX could handle it, though it wouldn't be half as good as the NES one, for sure. Unless if the guy who made Sonyc coded it

7-Zark-7 · 21 July 2003, 05:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Shatterhand
I still can't believe they could fuck up so much Battletoads. It wasn't a hard game to convert.

The best version of Micro Machines is the Miggy one.

I remember in the WIP of it in The One though that it was essentially being a conversion of the megadrive version-did anyone have it for comparison? (to the Amiga)

killergorilla · 21 July 2003, 09:53

If you're talking about Battletoads, then I've no idea what the megadrive one was like, but the Megadrive version of Micro machines was excellent.

It's pretty much identical but I'd put the Amiga one above it for sound, and the megadrive one above the amiga one for loading times.

Micro Machines 2 (in it's various forms) on the other hand was AWESOME on the megadrive. The addition of the cartridge being a "J-Cart" made it sooo much better. (J-Cart meaning that the cartridge had two joystick ports on it so the game was 4 player without the need to buy a multitap!)

It was actually 8-player but that involved sharing pads, ugh!

Amiga1992 · 21 July 2003, 19:01

Quote:

Originally posted by killergorilla \It's pretty much identical but I'd put the Amiga one above it for sound, and the megadrive one above the amiga one for loading times.[/B]

You could put the Amiga above it in all aspects, if you WHD Install Micro Machines to your HD. Ta-dah! No more loading times

MM2 was really awesome on the MD. I REALLY wanted that bastard on the Amiga

Fred the Fop · 22 July 2003, 03:05

The only game on the Amiga that approaches Micro Machines level of playability/control on the NES is Super Skidmarks. Now that is one fun as hell racing game, and is recently playable on WinUAE.
Does it need an Amiga 1200 at least?

Amiga1992 · 22 July 2003, 05:39

I like Super Skidmarks but I find it inferior to Micro Machines. MM is much more fun.

No, it doesn't need an A1200

Shatterhand · 22 July 2003, 06:11

J-Cart? What the hell? I had played Micro Machines 2 on the MD and it has no joysticks ports on it... it's the first time I hear about it.

Sharing pads in MM V3 on PSX isn't half bad, we get lots of fun here when we do it. Me and my mates are getting some money together to buy a multi-tap, and we surely will try the 8 players mode

I have never played Super Skidmarks, I only played the 1st one. It was good, but not excellent really. I personally love All Terrain Race, though the multiplayer mode kind sucks. But for single-player action, it's still unmatched IMO.

For multiplayer, Micro Machines takes the cake

And about Battletoads, the miggy version is eons away from the NES or the MD version. I love Battletoads, but the Amiga version is a travesty.

Fred the Fop · 22 July 2003, 08:28

Two things; first this thread is definitely worth saving to retrogaming. I'll leave it here till it peters out.
Second, we can't forget Powerdrive Rally, which is a really cool rally game, but not quite on par imho with the other 2.

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29 April 2003, 05:24	#21
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	Huh ? Yeah, in Micro Machines V3, the AI isn't brilliant. They never seem to make any mistakes, but they also never run at full speed to compensate. But in All Terrain Race, I remember the CPU would do stupid things sometimes, and sometimes it would make very smart things, like taking shortcuts. This also happened in Nitro, developed by the very same guy. In Road Rash you can see CPU drones punching each other, and the police punching the CPU drones. Also the CPU drones do crash and fall from the bike. In GP2 you can also see the CPU doing smart stuff, and sometimes stupid stuff. Though I agree in this one I would like to see the CPU doing more "weird" stuff, you can easily see when they do something stupid, is a programmed stupid thing. In the Sega CD game "Formula One Beyond the Limit", the CPU cars would spin off or crash in other cars, and they also would do anything to overtake. In Destruction Derby, each character has it's own way of driving, some try to ram you, others just try to be as fast as possible, other are completely stupid... it's not GREAT, but it's very interesting. I don't think AI is as bad as you pointed off, is just that some people don't know how to do it properly.

29 April 2003, 07:48	#22
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	The shortcuts in ATR is a matter of it being programmed into the AI that it can take a shortcut at specified points. Some quick evaluation methods decide wether to take the shortcut or not. Same goes with the other AIs. They still follow the same thing but have been programmed to make mistakes to act human.

29 April 2003, 14:43	#23
7-Zark-7 Zone Friend Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Brisbane/Australia Posts: 1,270	I wasn't commenting on Micro Machine 3 in particular,nor intending to necessarily trash all race car games A.I. in general regarding extremes. But (for me at least),as an example Gran Turismo on PSX. Whilst playing through all the simulation part of the game & completing all the cups with a friend, we seemed to notice (particularly in the harder stages), that generally the CPU cars would assign 1 designated CPU car as its "golden child", with the rest of the CPU cars generally co-operating to protect this car's lead at all costs without ever challenging it-once past that car you virtually guaranteed 1st place every time. Now I'm not saying GT was bad, its definitely my favourite race game, but like most gameplay aspects with pursuits of eye candy 3D visuals or ultra realism, I just feel its an opportunity waiting to be exploited and expanded upon-who knows, maybe Geoff Crammond will look at that with the so-called Stunt Car Racer sequel idea. I'm no expert, & obviously it'd be torture trying to create a "realistic" A.I., but its just a thought that for the racers I've seen, there still doesn't "feel" a genuine individuality about the CPU A.I. yet.

30 April 2003, 05:12	#24
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	I haven't played GT that much (And probably won't anymore.. one memory card of mine just died with my GT savegame and also savegames of Tomb Raider IV with more than 14 hours of play ), but yes, I've noticed this too. Yes, I know in ATR the cars are programmed to shortcut in specific points, or in Nitro they are programmed to make mistakes to look like humans. In overhead racing games, the AI basically follows a racing line, or a group of racing lines, choosing the best (or random) line for that moment. Yet, you can see the difference between the AI in ATR and in Micro Machines. I think it still will take a LONG time 'til we see a human-like A.I. in a video-game, but what we have today is pretty good IMO.

30 April 2003, 07:49	#25
Drake1009 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,284	If they cut back on the eyecandy and concentrated on the AI they might be able to make a believeable one in the situation the game is supposed to be in. They were onto something in Half-life with the marine AI. Those guys knew (in comparison to most counter strike players) that if you were defending something it was nice to use the cover provided. Only run out when you think you've mortally wounded the enemy or if you're sending out a scout.

19 July 2003, 03:19	#26
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	Nothing but nothing compares to the NES version!

19 July 2003, 05:31	#28
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	No the Amiga version is inferior. It's about crisp tightness of controls for me, and the Amiga version is wonderful, of course. But It does not stack up in that department. Yes, Battletoads rawks!

19 July 2003, 18:19	#30
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	The Megadrive version was pretty neat.

20 July 2003, 15:54	#31
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	I still can't believe they could fuck up so much Battletoads. It wasn't a hard game to convert. The best version of Micro Machines is the Miggy one.

20 July 2003, 17:45	#32
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	Too bad it never made it to the MSX

20 July 2003, 23:44	#33
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	Very true. . Well, I only know one game by Codemasters for the MSX, so it's no surprise. I think only their very first game, BMX Simulator, was published for the MSX. (I once read an interview with them, saying this game was their first game ever). And before anyone says, YES, the MSX could handle it, though it wouldn't be half as good as the NES one, for sure. Unless if the guy who made Sonyc coded it

21 July 2003, 09:53	#35
killergorilla Lesser Talent Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: UK Age: 42 Posts: 7,957	If you're talking about Battletoads, then I've no idea what the megadrive one was like, but the Megadrive version of Micro machines was excellent. It's pretty much identical but I'd put the Amiga one above it for sound, and the megadrive one above the amiga one for loading times. Micro Machines 2 (in it's various forms) on the other hand was AWESOME on the megadrive. The addition of the cartridge being a "J-Cart" made it sooo much better. (J-Cart meaning that the cartridge had two joystick ports on it so the game was 4 player without the need to buy a multitap!) It was actually 8-player but that involved sharing pads, ugh!

22 July 2003, 03:05	#37
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	The only game on the Amiga that approaches Micro Machines level of playability/control on the NES is Super Skidmarks. Now that is one fun as hell racing game, and is recently playable on WinUAE. Does it need an Amiga 1200 at least?

22 July 2003, 05:39	#38
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,645	I like Super Skidmarks but I find it inferior to Micro Machines. MM is much more fun. No, it doesn't need an A1200

22 July 2003, 06:11	#39
Shatterhand Warhasneverbeensomuchfun Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Rio de Janeiro / Brazil Age: 41 Posts: 3,450	J-Cart? What the hell? I had played Micro Machines 2 on the MD and it has no joysticks ports on it... it's the first time I hear about it. Sharing pads in MM V3 on PSX isn't half bad, we get lots of fun here when we do it. Me and my mates are getting some money together to buy a multi-tap, and we surely will try the 8 players mode I have never played Super Skidmarks, I only played the 1st one. It was good, but not excellent really. I personally love All Terrain Race, though the multiplayer mode kind sucks. But for single-player action, it's still unmatched IMO. For multiplayer, Micro Machines takes the cake And about Battletoads, the miggy version is eons away from the NES or the MD version. I love Battletoads, but the Amiga version is a travesty.

22 July 2003, 08:28	#40
Fred the Fop flaming faggot Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Versailles Age: 55 Posts: 2,808	Two things; first this thread is definitely worth saving to retrogaming. I'll leave it here till it peters out. Second, we can't forget Powerdrive Rally, which is a really cool rally game, but not quite on par imho with the other 2.

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