make rain from tbl work perfectly with winuae

turrican3 · 21 July 2009, 03:36

hi everybody,
i try to make rain from tbl running correctly with winuae !!!

[ Show youtube player ]

look at 3 min 14 on the video a picture appear, ist i can't see this picture !

2nd problem 3 min later i loose the music !

The man who can make it run perfectly win my considers, it's not a high prize but sadly i have nothing more to give

NovaCoder · 21 July 2009, 05:11

Maybe you just have an early buggy version of the demo?

turrican3 · 21 July 2009, 11:09

I don't think so , i don't see an other version.

Ironclaw · 21 July 2009, 11:43

Probably another wrong-settings problem. Some games/demos are sensitive and need special treatment.

TCD · 21 July 2009, 14:13

@turrican3
Not much info you give there

Which WB version do you use (Plain 3.1/3.5/3.9, ClassicWB etc.) and which config settings (CPU, RAM...)?

zipper · 21 July 2009, 15:44

Using Amiga Forever 2008 with WinUAE v1.5.0 my Rain runs exactly like that Youtube one.
Same functionality with AmiKit + WinUAE v1.6.0.

turrican3 · 22 July 2009, 02:08

i zipper can you give me the config you used ? ?
thank you in advance.
the cyberdruid, i used so much config !!!!!
but always with winuae 1.6.1
ok i manage to make it run correctly with 1.5 but with 1.6.1 i can't !!
Zipper did you try with 1.6.1 ?
strangely, i think the jit make slowdown the video with 1.6.1, strange !

zipper · 22 July 2009, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican3

i zipper can you give me the config you used ? ?
... run correctly with 1.5 but with 1.6.1 i can't !!
Zipper did you try with 1.6.1 ?
strangely, i think the jit make slowdown the video with 1.6.1, strange !

No, must have a look.

TCD · 22 July 2009, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by turrican3

strangely, i think the jit make slowdown the video with 1.6.1, strange !

Hmm, here with 1.6.1 and JIT is runs too fast (some overlays show random memory stuff, see here : http://www.pouet.net/topic.php?which=2212), but both the picture and the music are fine. Which config do you use in 1.5 then?

zipper · 22 July 2009, 16:38

1.6.1 behaviour confirmed, crawls and stalls, tested via AmiKit. 1.6.2b1 works again.

turrican3 · 22 July 2009, 17:28

ok thank you,
i'll be waiting for winuae 1.6.2 then.

turrican3 · 23 August 2009, 22:15

the slowdown still with 1.6.2 beta 10.
is there somebody who knows what's the problem ?

niobyte · 21 November 2009, 21:32

Have you tried running the demo without JIT (Just In Time) emulation.

Also try using the 68060 CPU option with FPU -> CPU Internal -> More compatible ticked.

You will find with JIT emulation since it is cached and pre-compiled the demo runs way too fast compared to its native speed on a real 68060.

I have honestly tried myself without using JIT it has major issues trying to emulate this demo. I have found that using 68030, 68040 or 68060 with the above configuration of 'more compatible' it ends up with a guru just after the rain intro.

I have found with the 68020 + FPU it completes the whole demo but the timing is completely gone and the parts take a long time to appear but eventually do way too late.

The demo completes in around 8 mins with the 68020 + FPU config without JIT and set to 'fastest possible but maintain chipset timing'. Mainly due to seeing a blank screen a long time between parts. It also missed the girl with rose picture (with JIT turned on it seems to show this picture). When each segment is seen at an acceptable frame-rate faster than what it is natively seen on a 68060 @ 50 MHz.

I had tested this with the latest version of WinUAE. It seems older versions of WinUAE seem to be able to run this demo a little better for some reason (runs faster in older versions, mainly due to emulation in-accuracy). Although, not much differs in reality.

You will find with the 68060 config without using JIT if you view that you will see that it runs a similar speed to how it is on a real 68060, well it is on mine. This will depend on how fast your CPU is. With the 68060 option it does not go past the intro unfortunately.

For JIT settings:
8MB cache | Constant Jump | FPU Support | No Flags | InDirect

You will find under JIT at least completes properly, but is just a lot faster (depending on how fast your CPU is) compared to how it runs on a 68060 @ 50 MHz. I have run this demo on my A1200 BPPC @ 210MHz with 68060 @ 50 MHz. The speed of it is pretty close to the YouTube video.

I guess the only chance of seeing this demo at the correct speed and a lot of other 68060 demo's. Is if cycle-exact emulation is done for a 68060 equipped Amiga. At the moment WinUAE only does cycle-exact emulation for the Amiga 500.

The versions I tested this on were: 1.4.6.0 & 1.6.1.0

Quite interesting that you were able to get it to work at a more accurate speed in 1.5.0

You can ignore this post if you want

I am just posting my findings.

andreas · 04 December 2009, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by niobyte

At the moment WinUAE only does cycle-exact emulation for the Amiga 500.

I dare claim this to be untrue.
CE emulation, albeit very experimental and prone to cause random side-effects on 68020+ (especially in CPU timing; according to Toni), already DOES exist for higher-class m68k CPU types set in WinUAE.
There's just no guarantee that it works without any flaws; but chances are it does anyhow---if you're lucky

pmc · 04 December 2009, 09:11

I agree with niobyte.

In my experience getting TBL's Rain to work with WinUAE is very difficult. I've tried many different settings, with and without JIT.

I've either had crashes, at worst, or, at best, the demo running too fast or too slow.

Only real solution I found was to watch it on a real A1200 with '060.

I would love there to eventually be a real (ie. not just experimental) cycle exact for 020 and above processors and the AGA chipset but I realise this is one hell of a lot of horrible intricate work.

TCD · 04 December 2009, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmc

I would love there to eventually be a real (ie. not just experimental) cycle exact for 020 and above processors and the AGA chipset but I realise this is one hell of a lot of horrible intricate work.

There is

Have a look here : http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=621742&postcount=4 (oh and maybe read andreas post again

)

pmc · 04 December 2009, 10:44

@ TCD - yeah I know there's now been good steps made towards closer to 020 cycle exact but as per andreas's post (see, I did read it

) it's experimental only at the moment.

I'm talking a proper, full blown, spot on perfect cycle exact software representation of all the the higher spec processors up to 060 and the AGA chipset itself too. That's definitely not anywhere near done yet as far as I know.

Of course I'd be happy to be wrong on this.

TCD · 04 December 2009, 10:47

Heh, maybe I should have read your post more carefully

Does anyone tried Rain with cycle-exact and a custom CPU frequency? I might have a look later (although I have no 060 Miggy to compate it to).

pmc · 04 December 2009, 10:54

@ TCD - nope, never tried that personally. I tend not to really use the beta versions of WinUAE so I'm waiting for the release of 2.0.0

Would be interesting to know whether the new timing enhancements have improved compatibility with this demo...

Toni Wilen · 04 December 2009, 12:09

I 100% don't care about 68040+ demos that don't like too fast CPU or too fast chipset.

Only if someone finds and explains the 100% exact problem. No assumptions or maybes accepted. (and only if the problem is not "too fast CPU")

21 July 2009, 03:36	#1
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	make rain from tbl work perfectly with winuae hi everybody, i try to make rain from tbl running correctly with winuae !!! [ Show youtube player ] look at 3 min 14 on the video a picture appear, ist i can't see this picture ! 2nd problem 3 min later i loose the music ! The man who can make it run perfectly win my considers, it's not a high prize but sadly i have nothing more to give

21 July 2009, 15:44	#6
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,837	Using Amiga Forever 2008 with WinUAE v1.5.0 my Rain runs exactly like that Youtube one. Same functionality with AmiKit + WinUAE v1.6.0. Last edited by zipper; 21 July 2009 at 21:27.

22 July 2009, 02:08	#7
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	i zipper can you give me the config you used ? ? thank you in advance. the cyberdruid, i used so much config !!!!! but always with winuae 1.6.1 ok i manage to make it run correctly with 1.5 but with 1.6.1 i can't !! Zipper did you try with 1.6.1 ? strangely, i think the jit make slowdown the video with 1.6.1, strange ! Last edited by turrican3; 22 July 2009 at 03:46.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Anyone able to make Cobra work?	Mclane	support.WinUAE	6	05 September 2010 15:40
TBL GOA freezes here on WinUAE	ancalimon	support.Demos	3	01 December 2009 12:34
Catweasel IV can't make it work	zimgr5	support.Hardware	14	17 February 2009 22:02
Rain TBL - A1200 + 030 50Mhz	NovaCoder	support.Demos	18	22 January 2009 17:26
Can anyone make this demo work?	Ziaxx	support.Demos	20	02 January 2002 21:03

21 July 2009, 05:11	#2
NovaCoder Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne/Australia Posts: 4,400	Maybe you just have an early buggy version of the demo?

21 July 2009, 11:09	#3
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	I don't think so , i don't see an other version.

21 July 2009, 11:43	#4
Ironclaw Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: ... Age: 45 Posts: 3,313	Probably another wrong-settings problem. Some games/demos are sensitive and need special treatment.

21 July 2009, 14:13	#5
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,518	@turrican3 Not much info you give there Which WB version do you use (Plain 3.1/3.5/3.9, ClassicWB etc.) and which config settings (CPU, RAM...)?

22 July 2009, 16:38	#10
zipper Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: finland Posts: 1,837	1.6.1 behaviour confirmed, crawls and stalls, tested via AmiKit. 1.6.2b1 works again.

22 July 2009, 17:28	#11
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	ok thank you, i'll be waiting for winuae 1.6.2 then.

23 August 2009, 22:15	#12
turrican3 Moon 1969 = amiga 1985 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: belgium Age: 48 Posts: 3,913	the slowdown still with 1.6.2 beta 10. is there somebody who knows what's the problem ?

21 November 2009, 21:32	#13
niobyte AMR / HOL Contributor Join Date: May 2007 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 171	Have you tried running the demo without JIT (Just In Time) emulation. Also try using the 68060 CPU option with FPU -> CPU Internal -> More compatible ticked. You will find with JIT emulation since it is cached and pre-compiled the demo runs way too fast compared to its native speed on a real 68060. I have honestly tried myself without using JIT it has major issues trying to emulate this demo. I have found that using 68030, 68040 or 68060 with the above configuration of 'more compatible' it ends up with a guru just after the rain intro. I have found with the 68020 + FPU it completes the whole demo but the timing is completely gone and the parts take a long time to appear but eventually do way too late. The demo completes in around 8 mins with the 68020 + FPU config without JIT and set to 'fastest possible but maintain chipset timing'. Mainly due to seeing a blank screen a long time between parts. It also missed the girl with rose picture (with JIT turned on it seems to show this picture). When each segment is seen at an acceptable frame-rate faster than what it is natively seen on a 68060 @ 50 MHz. I had tested this with the latest version of WinUAE. It seems older versions of WinUAE seem to be able to run this demo a little better for some reason (runs faster in older versions, mainly due to emulation in-accuracy). Although, not much differs in reality. You will find with the 68060 config without using JIT if you view that you will see that it runs a similar speed to how it is on a real 68060, well it is on mine. This will depend on how fast your CPU is. With the 68060 option it does not go past the intro unfortunately. For JIT settings: 8MB cache \| Constant Jump \| FPU Support \| No Flags \| InDirect You will find under JIT at least completes properly, but is just a lot faster (depending on how fast your CPU is) compared to how it runs on a 68060 @ 50 MHz. I have run this demo on my A1200 BPPC @ 210MHz with 68060 @ 50 MHz. The speed of it is pretty close to the YouTube video. I guess the only chance of seeing this demo at the correct speed and a lot of other 68060 demo's. Is if cycle-exact emulation is done for a 68060 equipped Amiga. At the moment WinUAE only does cycle-exact emulation for the Amiga 500. The versions I tested this on were: 1.4.6.0 & 1.6.1.0 Quite interesting that you were able to get it to work at a more accurate speed in 1.5.0 You can ignore this post if you want I am just posting my findings.

04 December 2009, 09:11	#15
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	I agree with niobyte. In my experience getting TBL's Rain to work with WinUAE is very difficult. I've tried many different settings, with and without JIT. I've either had crashes, at worst, or, at best, the demo running too fast or too slow. Only real solution I found was to watch it on a real A1200 with '060. I would love there to eventually be a real (ie. not just experimental) cycle exact for 020 and above processors and the AGA chipset but I realise this is one hell of a lot of horrible intricate work.

04 December 2009, 10:44	#17
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	@ TCD - yeah I know there's now been good steps made towards closer to 020 cycle exact but as per andreas's post (see, I did read it ) it's experimental only at the moment. I'm talking a proper, full blown, spot on perfect cycle exact software representation of all the the higher spec processors up to 060 and the AGA chipset itself too. That's definitely not anywhere near done yet as far as I know. Of course I'd be happy to be wrong on this.

04 December 2009, 10:47	#18
TCD HOL/FTP busy bee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Age: 46 Posts: 31,518	Heh, maybe I should have read your post more carefully Does anyone tried Rain with cycle-exact and a custom CPU frequency? I might have a look later (although I have no 060 Miggy to compate it to).

04 December 2009, 10:54	#19
pmc gone Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: completely gone Posts: 1,596	@ TCD - nope, never tried that personally. I tend not to really use the beta versions of WinUAE so I'm waiting for the release of 2.0.0 Would be interesting to know whether the new timing enhancements have improved compatibility with this demo...

04 December 2009, 12:09	#20
Toni Wilen WinUAE developer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland Age: 49 Posts: 26,502	I 100% don't care about 68040+ demos that don't like too fast CPU or too fast chipset. Only if someone finds and explains the 100% exact problem. No assumptions or maybes accepted. (and only if the problem is not "too fast CPU")

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)