Apple trying to outlaw emulation

[Hewitson]

Load of garbage. Xcode already includes emulators for iOS devices, and has done for years. Apple are simply trying to prevent third party emulation, for hardware which is still sold. A completely understandable move.

[Minuous]

There is nothing wrong with third party emulation for hardware which is still sold, it's already settled case law.

Machines for running OS4 are still sold; that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with UAE emulating it.

It's understandable that they only care about maximizing their own profit to the detriments of the rights of emulator users and developers. They have been anti-emulation since at least the A-Max days, except when it suits them.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by Minuous

There is nothing wrong with third party emulation for hardware which is still sold, it's already settled case law.

Well there is, because emulation of the hardware could lead to clone iPhone's being manufactured by other companies.

Originally Posted by Minuous

Machines for running OS4 are still sold; that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with UAE emulating it.

Are you really comparing AmigaOS4 to iOS?

One is used by half the world. One is almost unknown.

[Minuous]

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Well there is, because emulation of the hardware could lead to clone iPhone's being manufactured by other companies.

Well, clone IBM PCs, for example, were manufactured by Commodore and continue to be manufactured by other companies, nothing illegal about that.

Are you really comparing AmigaOS4 to iOS?

One is used by half the world. One is almost unknown.

Bleem was legally emulating the PS1 which was the most popular console at the time, so I don't see the relevance of whether a platform is unknown or not.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by Minuous

Well, clone IBM PCs, for example, were manufactured by Commodore and continue to be manufactured by other companies, nothing illegal about that.

I'm sure Apple's many patents would make it highly illegal.

Originally Posted by Minuous

Bleem was legally emulating the PS1 which was the most popular console at the time, so I don't see the relevance of whether a platform is unknown or not.

Bleem used a reverse-engineered and not 100% compatible PSX BIOS.

That's very different to having an official version of iOS running on non-Apple hardware.

[Argo]

https://mashable.com/video/apple-cor...ement-lawsuit/

It's either about the security of iOS or licence of the ROM they use being used not in a single instance but many at once

https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/15/ap...ing-corellium/

[Minuous]

Fortunately Apple did not prevail (https://9to5mac.com/2023/12/15/apple...settled-again/) but now Nintendo is trying to do much the same thing...is there no depth these companies will not sink to!?

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...u-emulator.pdf
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/...emulator-yuzu/

I can see Cloanto trying to ban non-AF use of Amiga emulators if Nintendo actually succeed with this. The legality of emulation has been well-established but you never know which way a court is going to rule these days.

[dreadnought]

Yeah, it's pretty sad. Big N should stick to making great hard/software, not trying to shut down every project that relates to their stuff.

Some say it's because Yuzu people have a very profitable Patreon, but I think it's just because it's very popular and so bigwigs at Nintendo can't sleep at night unless even a remote possibility of losing a $ is exorcised.

[Amigajay]

Nintendo are ridiculous in this situation, blaming and trying to sue others when the issue is in their own backyard and their own fault the game was leaked!

Trying to blame an emulator for loss of profit is like trying to sue a memory stick company because movies are illegally downloaded and watched on them! Idiots!

[Snoopy1234]

Apple have been struck by the apple-corer since their inception. Apple products are such a hollow promise imho. Yes I have an ipod and a few classic macs. We used them back at school too. Most of the women I know have Iphones like a supreme pizza for them.

On copyright, it is illegal to download copyrighted software (lifespan 50 yrs) even if you own a copy already. That's hard-line and I think the property rights follow suit and downloads never really transfer title but remain with the developer.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Minuous

https://games.slashdot.org/story/24/...-emulator-yuzu

I can see Cloanto trying to ban non-AF use of Amiga emulators if Nintendo actually succeed with this. The legality of emulation has been well-established but you never know which way a court is going to rule these days.

Not really sure the Yuzu case can be applied to other emulation projects. Nintendo argues that the way that the emulator circumvents the encryption of the Switch games isn't legal. While big N is known for their general anti-emulation stance this case is about how the emulator handles the encryption of the games.

[Minuous]

They're claiming much more than that, see the court briefing I linked to above. Eg. that any kind of backup or format shifting is illegal. Ie. even running a game that was sold as being "for A500/A1000/A2000" on an A600 would fall afoul of this, as it is "unauthorized hardware" for these games.

[Samurai_Crow]

Originally Posted by Minuous

They're claiming much more than that, see the court briefing I linked to above. Eg. that any kind of backup or format shifting is illegal. Ie. even running a game that was sold as being "for A500/A1000/A2000" on an A600 would fall afoul of this, as it is "unauthorized hardware" for these games.

It always was illegal to run on unauthorized hardware. The reason it was only authorized to run on OCS was that hardware banging techniques would require patching or reverse engineering and software firms didn't want to have liabilities.

That said, I'd rather wear an eyepatch than follow these types of legalese speakers. While we're at it we can revoke the 16th amendment to the U.S. constitution. No more income tax!

[TCD]

Yuzu settles and will stop to exist: [ Show youtube player ]
Kinda good news for emulation in general though as there will be no precedent.

[TCD]

Aaron Giles (creator of the DREAMM LucasArts emulator and former LucasArts employee) wrote an interesting comment about the Yuzu settlement:

My hot take on the yuzu situation: many obvious dumb mistakes were made.

When we developed Connectix VGS back in the day, we went in knowing the risks of emulating a still-active console. We went out of our way to try and make it as legit as possible, adding logic to try and detect copied disks, attempting to get a proper license from Sony, etc.

But when we did release, the thing that become most apparent was that despite all our efforts, the #1 reason people wanted it was for piracy. In fact, VGS itself was pirated waaaay more than it was sold. The people who really wanted it were by and large pirates, and they were happy to pirate both us and the games.

At that point it become crystal clear to me that there was really no way to write an emulator for a current-generation console without inviting mass piracy. In fact ever since then it's been my firm belief that emulating current-gen anything is a fool's errand and should be avoided unless you're looking for trouble.

The fact that yuzu was pulling in $30k+/month from donations and creating an Android version was just fuel for the fire. Add to that Nintendo's well-known litigious nature regarding emulation and the whole TOTK foolishness, and I honestly can't believe it took this long for them to be shut down.

I'm just glad they didn't go to court and lose badly.

Source: https://corteximplant.com/@aaronsgil...42281462945123

[chip]

I am not good to understand technical details

Should i be worried about the use of WinUAE in the end ?

Thanks to all, chip

[TCD]

Originally Posted by chip

Should i be worried about the use of WinUAE in the end ?

No Simply put: The creators of Yuzu agreed to pay money to Nintendo out of court. This means there isn't a verdict by a judge or jury to be used as an example for other emulators.

[chip]

I am happy now

[Korban]

Weird thing about all this is their use of TOTK in their arguments when at the time of its release TOTK didnt work on Yuzu at all. It DID work on Ryujinx, but not Yuzu.
Generally this would seem a little pedantic, but seeing as TOTK was specifically mentioned by Nintendo as a point against Yuzu it seems to be something that should have been corrected somewhere along the line by someone.