Amiga gfx

[Amiga1992]

Thanks so much yrizoud! grafx2 is such a fantastic tool, I'd be glad to be of any help I can to make it better.

What I don't uinderstand is this: in grafx2 you can set the image size (canvas) and screen resolution of the software. I don't think you should save at all the screen resolution of the software, rather, just save the information of the canvas used. If I need a 320x512 screen, i should take the work to specify that on grafx2 and then DPIV and others will read it accordingly.

Since grafx2 is not necessarily switching to these wack graphic modes (and there's no need to in today's computers), saving the screen resolution grafx2 is using to the IFF file seems unnecessary and, as we can see, counter-productive.

Do you also think it is possible to really limit the colour numbers that grafx2 saves on an IFF file? I don';t even know if such files would be readable by DP3 or other software. As it is, for example if yo are developing a game, you will always need DPIV or similar to make the final save of your files for proper Amiga use, because grafx2 files are not directly usable.

[freehand]

Alkira I do have sufficient ram 8 meg but I am using deluxe paint 3 I may change but as I read your post there are still problems.

My symptoms on loading image is no message from deluxe paint the screen just flicks and no picture I all so tried show page option it is as it should be no lager page e.t.c.

[yrizoud]

Well I've just tested on UAE and I'm a bit puzzled...
In DP 3, I can't reload any image : no error message at all.
In DP 4, I can't reload any image : Message box "System message - Can't Load <filename>"
Maybe it's the versions I'm testing (4.0, copyright 85-91 Electronics Arts) or I should configure UAE for a different hardware (currently: OCS)

In any case, I tested with a file saved on DP2E, it won't load either...

[Amiga1992]

Let's all agree that DP3 is rather old, so I would only test DP4 and DP5.
Configure as AGA, that's what I am using.

[yrizoud]

Ok so according to Wikipedia, Deluxe Paint IV 4.5 is the first version that supports 256-color modes provided by AGA.
According to my tests, DP 4.5 understands the 8-bit ("chunky"?) file format used by Grafx2 and Deluxe Paint 2E, the loading will succeed no matter the "screen size" it was saved in. When it asks if you want to change the screen mode, just answer no to stay in your current preferred resolution. The Page will resize accordingly to image pixels, no problem.

However! If Deluxe Paint 4.5 is started on a non-AGA machine (in 32 colors, anyway), the program performs a color-reduction of the image to an optimized 32-color palette! This means the palette order is not guaranteed to be preserved, and unused colors will be lost. For game/demo purpose, this is generally destructive so I don't advise moving files from Grafx2 to Deluxe Paint 4.5 non-AGA.

About editing <256 colors in Grafx2 : This is an idea. It would be useful for several file formats (for the C64, Amstrad CPC, Atari ST) If we can enforce an image to stay 16 or 32 colors, it would make sense to save in IFF as 4 or 5 bitplanes. Such files should be re-loadable in many OCS programs.

[jvdw007]

Hi everyone.

I have to agree with Akira and the original poster. Grafx2 needs some improvement on the IFF saving front

And since Yrizoud's on the case, would he be able to also add functionality for when you save out to IFF that it automatically flattens the image?
I use Grafx2 extensively for pixelling for our game dev work we do and save my files as .gif due to the layer usability, but my process of conversion to the amiga is this:

1. Make/load image into Grafx2, work on it etc,.
2. Flatten image, save out as .png
3. Load into PPaint on amiga (it does load as a 256 colour image)
4. In PPaint, convert to 32 colours, save out as .iff

It's doable but is cumbersome and to be able to save out an .iff from Grafx2 to be used immediately on amiga without conversions would be great

[fishyfish]

PSP impractical for hand pixelling? What weird drugs are you on (and can I have some?).

It's not like Ive not used DPaint, PPaint, Gfx2, lodepaint, etc. already and in my opinion PSP stands head and shoulders above them for pixel art. It's only in recent times (relative to the products age) the image processing stuff became part of the package and its strength is with hand pixelled stuff (I wouldnt use it otherwise).

To be fair though at 1st it did seem a little unweildly, and its only once you learn to use it that a person realises just how good it is for pixel art.

[yrizoud]

Since version 2.4.1950 (May 2012), the program asks you when you save a layered image in a non-layer format : "Save flattened copy" or "Save current frame". It's considered an export, the 'current document' stays the original GIF if you "save and quit" for example.

Now, we still need to provide support for formats <256 colors. Maybe a sub-format selector. The most useful sub-formats would be 16 and 32 colors (DP3, DP4, and most Amiga OCS software), 256 colors (DP2E, DP4.5 and up (AGA))

In any case, thanks for reporting. Grafx2 has been used worldwide since 1996, and I wasn't aware of this incompatibility :/

[jvdw007]

Originally Posted by yrizoud

Since version 2.4.1950 (May 2012), the program asks you when you save a layered image in a non-layer format : "Save flattened copy" or "Save current frame". It's considered an export, the 'current document' stays the original GIF if you "save and quit" for example.

Ah, that would be the reason then, as I have version 2.3. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll get 2.4 (or should I wait for your updates?)

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by Bastich

Version 7 pre bloat is best

Version 8 of PSP is easily the best, I have version 4 for simple stuff and version 8 for doing some very complex stuff. Been using it for half a decade now and still not found anything impossible to do compared to Photoshop. I edit some pretty huge 8mp images with just 1gb of RAM and other stuff running in the background all the time

There is however a real issue with working on HAM mode images, I have yet to find a single utility to save out HAM images. And also a real shame is I can't even find an Amiga package that could save back the Digi-View 21bit colour RAW format (ADPro loads them but can't save them even with extra extensions/plugins).

Digi-View 4 was the best program to actually render Dynamic Hi-Res or Dynamic HAM so if I could get the images into it from 24bit digital source via PNGs I thought I could have made a stunning graphic adventure game. Even took the photos on holiday of some ruins and walked on a specific path to do a little demo years ago haha

[yrizoud]

I just re-discovered that the IFF variants for 16/32 or 256 colors are entirely different file formats : ILBM for the first, PBM for the second. So in Grafx2 I'll have to write the saving code from scratch... jvdw007, don't expect it too soon.

To freehand: For moving back images to the Amiga (OCS), it may help to encode them back to ILBM format while on the PC. XnView includes a command-line utility "nconvert" that can do it. It's rather helpful that it can do batch conversion 'in-place':
nconvert.exe -out iff -colors 16 yourdirectory/*.iff
But one little problem, it doesn't perform run-length compression at all, so files can be big...

[Amiga1992]

So that's why saving from grafx2 is been giving issues,t's because it's actually PBM! I didn't even know it was an IFF variant.

[freehand]

Originally Posted by yrizoud

I just re-discovered that the IFF variants for 16/32 or 256 colors are entirely different file formats : ILBM for the first, PBM for the second. So in Grafx2 I'll have to write the saving code from scratch... jvdw007, don't expect it too soon.

To freehand: For moving back images to the Amiga (OCS), it may help to encode them back to ILBM format while on the PC. XnView includes a command-line utility "nconvert" that can do it. It's rather helpful that it can do batch conversion 'in-place':
nconvert.exe -out iff -colors 16 yourdirectory/*.iff
But one little problem, it doesn't perform run-length compression at all, so files can be big...

I am using combination of Grafz2 & Xnview at the moment and all is good.

Thanks for your time and all others help in the thread

[yrizoud]

I uploaded a version of Grafx2 that can save IFF interleaved format.
http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/down...1993-win32.zip
There is now a distinction between the formats PBM and LBM.
On saving LBM, Grafx2 will detect how many bitplanes it should use depending on which color you actually used. If colors < 32, the file should reload fine on an OCS Amiga, in Deluxe Paint 3, AMOS Basic, etc.

[freehand]

yrizoud Thank you very much very impressed for the support.

All working fine now really happy.

Many thanks Jamie.

That is what I call real customer support.

[Amiga1992]

Nice one !! Will try this ASAP.
Thanks so much for your support!
There's something I noticed, in some volumes, when I try to load or save something, as I enter directories, I can't go to PARENT DIRECTORY. I think this happens only in my Mac volumes (mounted on the PC by Macdrive). Is this possible?

[yrizoud]

Do you mean the "parent directory" entry is missing, or it has no effect ?

[Amiga1992]

It's totally missing. It's only happening on my external, HFS formatted drives. I assume it's some sort of conflict with the way Macdrive maps the HFS drives in the system. every other application works transparently, though.

[yrizoud]

It should be fixed in the latest Windows build. I hope I didn't break something else in the file selector...
http://code.google.com/p/grafx2/down...1999-win32.zip

[jvdw007]

Thanks for that quick update yrizoud. I've downloaded it and will try it tonight at home!