NeoGeo Metal Slug conversion to Amiga 500 - madman task ;-)

[saimon69]

Fast blit operation works fine even on no DualPlayfield. Have some limits, but it worth implementing it

Would that also selectively choose what set of 1 2 or 3 bitplane use for fastblit beside the full 16 colors?
Like here? [see the palette groups below]


I might sound like a broken record or show obvious (for coders) tricks but since that was the way WE did it with OUR game and not sure anyone else did, maybe am up to something ^^

[masteries]

Originally Posted by Tsak

Honestly this looks way too good to be true. Not saying it can't be done (or that the video is a hoax), nor I am disregarding the abilities of an STE. However there are plenty points that are suspicious. The frame rate is in general super fast so it has to be 50 or 60 fps. On top of that the background scrolling is super smooth (albeit not that fast) and the color count feels more than 16 overal. Plus the objects count and size are more than what you'd typically expect.

Plenty questions and comments about what is required in the video are left unanswered so perhaps this is working on an emulator or an expanded machine.

Someone more familiar with the STE could correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's the game playing on a Falcon BTW : [ Show youtube player ]

From last to first,

Here's the game playing on a Falcon BTW

-The Falcon computer is running a NeoGeo emulator, not a native game. Falcon is more than capable of a 1:1 Metal Slug game on native mode.
NeoGeo emulation on a Falcon @ 16 MHz... has great merit, but 16 MHz is not enough to emulate it at full speed

Plenty questions and comments about what is required in the video are left unanswered

I am here to provide these answers you are requiring; videos has enough information, answers are provided to the people, as well the game binaries and files are provided in order to test them.


Answers can be viewed on video comments:


[ Show youtube player ]


[ Show youtube player ]

On top of that the background scrolling is super smooth (albeit not that fast)

Scrolling is hardware and blitter based, it is super-optimized. Its very smooth, also at higher rates; a new video is all you need.

and the color count feels more than 16 overal.

There are more than 16 colours present thanks to great DML effort; colouring is based on dualfield palette technique, creating new colours via combination of already available colours in the palette.

Plus the objects count and size are more than what you'd typically expect.

Incredible optimized sprite formats and drawing techniques are implemented in the engine in order to avoid any waste of time; letting the usage of really big sprites and great number of them at 50 frames per second.

The frame rate is in general super fast

First video is a recording of an emulator, running on my PC machine that only displays ans sync 60 Hz images. Emulator scales to sync at 60 Hz; 50 Hz playback is not possible due to my monitor.



As well, the software OpenShotVideo produces a very rare initial speed up of the ingame recorded video, as well some frames of the last part of the video are shown as start... (OpenShotVideo is useful, but produces some strange results); you can view that first frames are being played too fast xD ; I captured the audio separately; VLC player do not capture audio and video at the same time... is it possible without use Audacity and OpenShotVideo?



The second video is a real gameplay using a real STE machine, running on a 50 Hz TV, sync at 50 Hz, in order to show that the game runs perfectly at 50 fps.

[Tsak]

Thanks for your answers @masteries

Originally Posted by masteries

-The Falcon computer is running a NeoGeo emulator, not a native game. Falcon is more than capable of a 1:1 Metal Slug game on native mode.
NeoGeo emulation on a Falcon @ 16 MHz... has great merit, but 16 MHz is not enough to emulate it at full speed

Fair enough. I soon found out that as well. Performance is quite nice for an emulation of NeoGeo mind you. Still impressive.

Originally Posted by masteries

I am here to provide these answers you are requiring; videos has enough information, answers are provided to the people, as well the game binaries and files are provided in order to test them.

Answers can be viewed on video comments:

Thanks, I should note though that at the time I made that comment there were none. Perhaps the video was too recent.

Originally Posted by masteries

The second video is a real gameplay using a real STE machine, running on a 50 Hz TV, sync at 50 Hz, in order to show that the game runs perfectly at 50 fps.

Well, I'm not sure if it's the capturing method but clearly the video of the real deal isn't as remotely as smooth as the emulated one. This definitely looks more like 25fps rather than 50. Scrolling on both versions is pretty slow, which also matches 25 fps. If you check closely there are also frame drops and slow downs when the screen gets more action (in the non emulated video).

Anyhow, the result is still very impressive even as is. Congrats on that (and to the people that made Atari Game Tools)

[masteries]

Originally Posted by Tsak

This definitely looks more like 25fps rather than 50. Scrolling on both versions is pretty slow, which also matches 25 fps. If you check closely there are also frame drops and slow downs when the screen gets more action (in the non emulated video).

Anyhow, the result is still very impressive even as is. Congrats on that (and to the people that made Atari Game Tools)

Dualfield colouring doesn´t work under 40+ fps. Obviously there are some slowdowns; there is a frame slipping technique, but hard to notice in the video.


Youtube encoding creates some artifacts about the colouring. Sincerely I never heard about palette pairing prior of usage of Atari Game Tools.



But really is better to try the game on an emulator or a real machine, or a FPGA based one.

which also matches 25 fps

A fast scrolling video is needed

Anyhow, the result is still very impressive even as is. Congrats on that (and to the people that made Atari Game Tools)

Thanks, fyi the demo is obsolete now, RAM requirements decreased on 400 KB for this demo with current libraries features.

[skan]

Originally Posted by masteries

...
Falcon is more than capable of a 1:1 Metal Slug game on native mode.
...

Mhmhm, really?
Don't get me wrong, I like the Falcon, it'is a nice piece of hw (and what the A1200 should have been spec-wise too), but Metal Slug on the NeoGeo seems pretty massive...

[masteries]

Originally Posted by skan

Mhmhm, really?
Don't get me wrong, I like the Falcon, it'is a nice piece of hw (and what the A1200 should have been spec-wise too), but Metal Slug on the NeoGeo seems pretty massive...

A Falcon 030 have a 68030@16 MHz with instruction/data cache + a DSP processor@32 MHz + 14 MB of RAM



The 56000 DSP outperforms a 68030 when no conditional execution is needed for the DSP program.


Obviously you need to write an excellent to extremely optimized sprite + background/foreground engine using the resources of a Falcon machine; that is far from being an easy task,




A sprite engine using the DSP, Cho Ren Sha for Falcon 030:


[ Show youtube player ]


On this video, the optimized background / sprite clearing system is intentionally illustrated:


[ Show youtube player ]


Tremendous size sprites:



[ Show youtube player ]




All these videos are using 16 bits colour mode on the Falcon;
probably using 8 bits colour the performance will be much better.


If a Falcon is capable of move these insane quantity of sprites at 16 bits colour, at a very good refresh rate. With few less sprites, 8 bits colour... any 2D game you imagine (of course, do not think on a 1024x768 Baldur´s Gate game) can be executed on a Falcon.


Another thing is the needed amount of effort and knowledge...

[roondar]

I don't agree that the Falcon has 14MB. An upgraded Falcon has that, sure. But comparing an upgraded machine to a base level Amiga (as has been this threads original focus) is of course quite unfair

Edit: note that this is not a dig against the Falcon, which is an impressive machine. But it definitely is my opinion that comparing machines with a tons of extra memory is not quite an honest look at a platform's base capabilities.

[masteries]

Originally Posted by roondar

I don't agree that the Falcon has 14MB. An upgraded Falcon has that, sure. But comparing an upgraded machine to a base level Amiga (as has been this threads original focus) is of course quite unfair

Edit: note that this is not a dig against the Falcon, which is an impressive machine. But it definitely is my opinion that comparing machines with a tons of extra memory is not quite an honest look at a platform's base capabilities.

Nobody is comparing Falcon with anything else... than a NeoGeo.


Last message is an answer for Skan member question reagarding Falcon,


Obviously, previous messages are offtopic ones.

[skan]

Pretty impressive indeed! Yeah, maybe a 1:1 Falcon port could be done... But yeah, I agree 14MB is a nice'n'beefy amount of RAM... is that a standard on a plain vanilla Falcon?

(Sorry for the OT)

[britelite]

Originally Posted by skan

But yeah, I agree 14MB is a nice'n'beefy amount of RAM... is that a standard on a plain vanilla Falcon?

The RAM-board is replaceable, and standard boards are 4MB or 14MB.

[skan]

Originally Posted by britelite

The RAM-board is replaceable, and standard boards are 4MB or 14MB.

So let's say that could be considered as "standard"
Nice beast indeed! Again, what the 1200 should have been...
End of OT

[masteries]

Sorry for the OffTopic, I couldn´t hold back...


[ Show youtube player ]

[DamienD]

I haven't been reading this crazy thread but wanted to point out.

There is Arti's Amiga port of "Mini Slug"

Here are the requirements:

... 040+ CPU. PeterK's icon library for icons.
... About 18 MB of RAM and ~15MB HD free space.
... RTG.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Here are the requirements:

... 040+ CPU. PeterK's icon library for icons.
... About 18 MB of RAM and ~15MB HD free space.
... RTG.

Pretty boring looking game - annoying music, poorly drawn sprites, iffy collision detection, and my pet hate - things that flash when you shoot them! The whole thing seems quite amateurish. Surely an 040 with RTG can do better than this?

[ExiE]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Pretty boring looking game - annoying music, poorly drawn sprites, iffy collision detection, and my pet hate - things that flash when you shoot them! The whole thing seems quite amateurish. Surely an 040 with RTG can do better than this?

And what's your problem?

[Dunny]

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott

Pretty boring looking game - annoying music, poorly drawn sprites, iffy collision detection, and my pet hate - things that flash when you shoot them! The whole thing seems quite amateurish. Surely an 040 with RTG can do better than this?

I guess you could always just not play it and let people who do enjoy these things... enjoy them?

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by bruce abbott

poorly drawn sprites

lol.

[Bruce Abbott]

Originally Posted by Dunny

I guess you could always just not play it and let people who do enjoy these things... enjoy them?

Don't worry, I won't be playing it. But after 40 pages with nothing to show for it, doesn't look like anyone else will be either - which is no great loss.

[mcgeezer]

Originally Posted by Steril707

lol.

Yeah, i mean SNK were really shit are doing games weren’t they.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by mcgeezer

Yeah, i mean SNK were really shit are doing games weren’t they.

the worst.