Mounting Native PC(formatted) harddisk as a Harddisk for WinUAE/E-UAE

Zetr0 · 27 July 2005, 19:24

Hello there fellow Amigans,

okay I will be a little more specific,

I have a 512MB (pc formatted) Harddrive that I want to use on an existing Amiga.

A12 to be precise. this HDD is connected to my pc via USB caddy.

however: I want be able to do the following -

From WinUAE or E-UAE (matter not which) i want to be able to format that device as though its a native amiga hard drive.

Essentially:

I want to be able to mount this drive in UAE (Win or E got both) for formatting by workbench via the emulator (since i cant be assed to dig up an amiga at the moment) *and its dark, wet and scairy out there...*

the primary idea is so i can use the emulator to setup the hard-disk environment i.e. install workbench,apz etc and then put in a working amiga.

I understand in the E-UAE version, one can select the device that the item should use

ie hardware.device/filepath, or something like that...

if anyone knows how to do it out there i would appreciate your help.

thomas · 28 July 2005, 08:31

On WinXP / WinUAE it works like that: run WinUAE by entering the following command line:

winuae.exe -disableharddrivesafetycheck

Then go to the Hard Drives tab, click on Add Harddrive and choose your Amiga HDD. Be sure not to choose your Windows drive !!!!

Now load Workbench and install the drive as usual. Tell HDToolbox to use uaehf.device instead of scsi.device.

I don't know if E-UAE supports Amiga partitons, but if it does, on Linux add a hardfile to the .uaerc file and use /dev/hdb as file name (hdb being your Amiga hdd).

Installation is the same as above (uaehf.device).

Zetr0 · 31 July 2005, 02:18

Awsome Thomas!!!!! thanks very much!!!!!!

BippyM · 02 August 2005, 02:21

I think this information should be added to the FAQ..

RCK??

Shrub · 02 August 2005, 12:18

I agree Bibby. This and PCMCIA network card questions are very common.

Edit: or did you mean USB specifically?

OddbOd · 04 August 2005, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetr0

I understand in the E-UAE version, one can select the device that the item should use

Admittedly I haven't tried this yet but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work the way you assume. Since there are native Linux filesystem drivers for FFS and SFS (only just found out about this) the necessity to have WinUAE style hard drive support is essentially moot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

I don't know if E-UAE supports Amiga partitons, but if it does, on Linux add a hardfile to the .uaerc file and use /dev/hdb as file name (hdb being your Amiga hdd).

For the reason given above E-UAE doesn't need to support Amiga partitions the way WinUAE does.

Toni Wilen · 04 August 2005, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddbOd

Admittedly I haven't tried this yet but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work the way you assume. Since there are native Linux filesystem drivers for FFS and SFS (only just found out about this) the necessity to have WinUAE style hard drive support is essentially moot.

Not really.. Filenote (comment), flags and "illegal" filenames will be lost/mangled because no other operating system natively supports them.

dilinger · 01 June 2006, 06:16

Hi,

I am trying to do the same thing with my HD. I'm basically trying to install, partition, format and setup a harddrive using WinUAE which I can then use with my real Amiga hardware. The problem is I'm able to format and setup the hard-drive and it works perfectly within WinUAE. I was able to install Professional File System 3 and it works as you'd expect.

But NOT when I plug the same drive into my Amiga. When I try to use the harddrive with my real Amiga it only seems to be able to work with the boot-partition (128mg), the other 5 partitions (around 7GB each) show-up as "Name:Unreadable". I cannot even format these partitions with my real Amiga as I get the PFS3 error message: "Write error -3 on block 0. Make sure disk is inserted"

If anyone has any suggestions I'd be greatful for any advice and feedback. I thought I would have no troubles as long as everything worked in WinUAE then it should work equally on my Amiga??? This doesn't seem to be the case

Btw: the harddrive is a brand new 40gb Western Digital Scorpio, fully checked and verified under Windows...so there are no hardware defects.

thomas · 01 June 2006, 08:34

The original IDE driver of the Amiga cannot see more than the first 4GB of the HDD. To circumvent this limit you need two patches: an updated driver (scsi.device) and a new file system. You only have a new file system, so it does not work yet.

The best choice of an updated IDE driver for use with PFS3 is IDEfix97, but it costs money. http://www.vesalia.de/e_idemax97.htm
There is a free patch for scsi.device here: http://os.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=37
But it only works with PFS3ds because PFS3 does not use the 64bit commands offered by this patch.

Note these:
- the boot partition has to be inside the first 4GB of the HDD (as you already experienced: you 128MB partition is fine)
- you must not format partitions beyond the 4GB barrier of the HDD. You can use quick format for all partitions anyway.
- there are many many programs which do low-level access to the HDD and don't support large HDDs. Using them may lead to total data loss. This includes the format program as mentioned before.

dilinger · 01 June 2006, 12:22

Thank you very much for the advice Thomas. I am going to check and double check this whole procedure and try again tonight using all your info!

I'm just wondering now how I managed to install my other a1200's 12GB internal IDE HD and 20GB external SCSI HD...both using partitions upto 6GB!? I seem to remember installing the PFS Direct SCSI file sytem as you suggested above...because it supported TD64 (or whatever it's called). But I can't remember updating the scsi.device. Oh well, I guess I must have at some point!

One more thing, can you explain to me why these 4GB> partitions of the HD work fine in WinUAE but not on my real Amiga? Is WinUAE bypassing the system directory scsi.device functions, or something?

thomas · 01 June 2006, 14:04

Quote:

I'm just wondering now how I managed to install my other a1200's 12GB internal IDE HD and 20GB external SCSI HD...both using partitions upto 6GB!? I seem to remember installing the PFS Direct SCSI file sytem as you suggested above...because it supported TD64 (or whatever it's called).

There are three command sets to support large hard drives:

- TD64 was invented and agreed by Phase5 and some other hardware vendors
- NSD was invented by ex-Commodore people and made a standard without any public agreement
- SCSI Direct aka HD_SCSICMD was always there, but has some limitations, too. A real SCSI driver would send these commands to the drive unchanged and would work with any drives. But an IDE driver has to interprete these commands and translate them to IDE/ATAPI commands. There is a limitation in the ROM driver of 8GB, so it is of no use for larger HDDs, too.

PFS3 uses TD64, PFS3ds uses SCSI. The updated IDE drivers supplied by Commodore certainly only support NSD, so PFS3 does not work with these, you have to use PFS3ds then.

Quote:

But I can't remember updating the scsi.device. Oh well, I guess I must have at some point!

There are several ways to get large HDD support for the IDE driver. For example you might have got an OEM version of IDEfix for free with your CD-ROM drive or with a 4-way adapter.

Quote:

can you explain to me why these 4GB> partitions of the HD work fine in WinUAE but not on my real Amiga? Is WinUAE bypassing the system directory scsi.device functions, or something?

UAE does not use scsi.device at all. Scsi.device does only work with the Amiga's built in IDE hardware. UAE does not emulate IDE hardware, it emulates HDD access on driver level. The driver for UAE's HDD bus is called uaehf.device and it supports all three command sets mentioned above without any restriction AFAIK.

27 July 2005, 19:24	#1
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Mounting Native PC(formatted) harddisk as a Harddisk for WinUAE/E-UAE Hello there fellow Amigans, okay I will be a little more specific, I have a 512MB (pc formatted) Harddrive that I want to use on an existing Amiga. A12 to be precise. this HDD is connected to my pc via USB caddy. however: I want be able to do the following - From WinUAE or E-UAE (matter not which) i want to be able to format that device as though its a native amiga hard drive. Essentially: I want to be able to mount this drive in UAE (Win or E got both) for formatting by workbench via the emulator (since i cant be assed to dig up an amiga at the moment) and its dark, wet and scairy out there... the primary idea is so i can use the emulator to setup the hard-disk environment i.e. install workbench,apz etc and then put in a working amiga. I understand in the E-UAE version, one can select the device that the item should use ie hardware.device/filepath, or something like that... if anyone knows how to do it out there i would appreciate your help. Last edited by Zetr0; 27 July 2005 at 20:04.

02 August 2005, 12:18	#5
Shrub Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: England Age: 43 Posts: 238	I agree Bibby. This and PCMCIA network card questions are very common. Edit: or did you mean USB specifically? Last edited by Shrub; 04 August 2005 at 20:39.

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28 July 2005, 08:31	#2
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	On WinXP / WinUAE it works like that: run WinUAE by entering the following command line: winuae.exe -disableharddrivesafetycheck Then go to the Hard Drives tab, click on Add Harddrive and choose your Amiga HDD. Be sure not to choose your Windows drive !!!! Now load Workbench and install the drive as usual. Tell HDToolbox to use uaehf.device instead of scsi.device. I don't know if E-UAE supports Amiga partitons, but if it does, on Linux add a hardfile to the .uaerc file and use /dev/hdb as file name (hdb being your Amiga hdd). Installation is the same as above (uaehf.device).

31 July 2005, 02:18	#3
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Awsome Thomas!!!!! thanks very much!!!!!!

02 August 2005, 02:21	#4
BippyM Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Derby, UK Age: 48 Posts: 9,355	I think this information should be added to the FAQ.. RCK??

01 June 2006, 06:16	#8
dilinger Zone Friend Join Date: May 2005 Location: denmark Age: 47 Posts: 45	Hi, I am trying to do the same thing with my HD. I'm basically trying to install, partition, format and setup a harddrive using WinUAE which I can then use with my real Amiga hardware. The problem is I'm able to format and setup the hard-drive and it works perfectly within WinUAE. I was able to install Professional File System 3 and it works as you'd expect. But NOT when I plug the same drive into my Amiga. When I try to use the harddrive with my real Amiga it only seems to be able to work with the boot-partition (128mg), the other 5 partitions (around 7GB each) show-up as "Name:Unreadable". I cannot even format these partitions with my real Amiga as I get the PFS3 error message: "Write error -3 on block 0. Make sure disk is inserted" If anyone has any suggestions I'd be greatful for any advice and feedback. I thought I would have no troubles as long as everything worked in WinUAE then it should work equally on my Amiga??? This doesn't seem to be the case Btw: the harddrive is a brand new 40gb Western Digital Scorpio, fully checked and verified under Windows...so there are no hardware defects.

01 June 2006, 08:34	#9
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	The original IDE driver of the Amiga cannot see more than the first 4GB of the HDD. To circumvent this limit you need two patches: an updated driver (scsi.device) and a new file system. You only have a new file system, so it does not work yet. The best choice of an updated IDE driver for use with PFS3 is IDEfix97, but it costs money. http://www.vesalia.de/e_idemax97.htm There is a free patch for scsi.device here: http://os.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=37 But it only works with PFS3ds because PFS3 does not use the 64bit commands offered by this patch. Note these: - the boot partition has to be inside the first 4GB of the HDD (as you already experienced: you 128MB partition is fine) - you must not format partitions beyond the 4GB barrier of the HDD. You can use quick format for all partitions anyway. - there are many many programs which do low-level access to the HDD and don't support large HDDs. Using them may lead to total data loss. This includes the format program as mentioned before.

01 June 2006, 12:22	#10
dilinger Zone Friend Join Date: May 2005 Location: denmark Age: 47 Posts: 45	Thank you very much for the advice Thomas. I am going to check and double check this whole procedure and try again tonight using all your info! I'm just wondering now how I managed to install my other a1200's 12GB internal IDE HD and 20GB external SCSI HD...both using partitions upto 6GB!? I seem to remember installing the PFS Direct SCSI file sytem as you suggested above...because it supported TD64 (or whatever it's called). But I can't remember updating the scsi.device. Oh well, I guess I must have at some point! One more thing, can you explain to me why these 4GB> partitions of the HD work fine in WinUAE but not on my real Amiga? Is WinUAE bypassing the system directory scsi.device functions, or something?

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