OTS and Spamming

[humble worm]

Originally Posted by gimbal

why is the ghey stuff still being brought up?

no idea, seems its some kind of mantra

[Muzkat]

I'm going to make a stand for decency and mutual respect...

...which means I'm going to make a stand for OTS. Flame away if you like.

If you analyse the actual acronym "OTS," you'll find that the "S" stands for "stupidity." And that is exactly what takes place in there. Just some fun. Rubbish fun, silly fun, but fun, for some people anyway. What more did you expect?

I myself have been part of this forum for many years, and wacky, off-beat humour is almost as integral to the EAB as the Amiga is. At least that's how I see it. It can be crass and crude, but innocuous and mostly harmless; just a few members expressing some particularly black and/or immature humour.

I say "mostly harmless" because I confess that I did not like how Kyon was treated. I feel it became nasty and went way too far, and as a result I personally took no part in it. But again, see how that has not continued, and has mostly petered out. Just like with the "ghey" stuff. If you take a look at OTS right now, there's hardly anything really offensive there.

Exclusion? Who? What exclusion? Apart from Kyon's harsh treatment, there is no exclusion in OTS - it is open to everyone. My sentiments are that if you feel that way, then that lingering sense of ostracisation is one that is a product of your mind rather then the board, or its members. No offence. The only toes that have been stepped on are the ones squashed during the past 24 hours.

If the humour isn't to your taste (and yes, this debate is about taste, no matter how you try and dress the issue up with fancy rhetoric), then don't read it. Make up your own thread that serves your own needs, perhaps in the regular OT section. But people here have no right to denounce what is right or wrong, what is good or bad, or what is funny or not funny, as it is all purely subjective, and should hence be exempt for some over-the-top ruling. As long as the silliness remains in certain parameters, then who do these members think they are, trying to say what is acceptable and what is not?

I'd love to see the cold, hard statistics that emphatically state that OTS is responsible for less members signing up to the EAB, or is the reason for them leaving. I highly doubt it. I would have thought some silly shenanigans would have attracted more potential members, as it would have shown them that we can let our hair down, and that there is more to our lives then worshipping an outdated piece of silicon.

Perhaps the real reason why not many people are signing up to the EAB is because not that many people are into Amigas anymore? Whoah. Now that's a thought.

In my humble view, this isn't about "content" or "usability." It's about a few crusading members who disagree with the humour in OTS (which is perfectly in their rights), and who are now throwing their weight around to see it eradicated (which isn't).

I'm also extremely dissappointed in some members here who used to heavily contribute to the OT section, only to abandon it today, from atop of their high horses, flinging potatoes down at people they feel are lesser then them. Sorry guys, but that smacks of hypocrisy, and it made me sad.

If the mods want to get rid of OTS, then go ahead. I will hang around, as I always will. But I disagree with a group of people, a coalition of the willing, if you wish, who feel that they are a majority but whose group are neither as major or as numerous as they think, trying to take down something they simply don't "get" or don't like, branding other members as the axis of evil while on their moral crusade.

Some people take OT far too seriously.

[humble worm]

I guess my fate is to agree with Muzkat. I can sign under the post with all my limbs

[gimbal]

same here. Muzzy for president!

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by DemonHellraiser

@Marco
I don't think it's about scrutinising everything that gets posted, it's about taking the edge off something that otherwise could get out of hand. If people know there is someone there to keep an eye on things, then some people would think twice about what they post or the QTY of repetitive pics they use.

so there is a quality standard now to the contribute here that is not clear upon registering to EAB.
because it should be more than simple respect of the rules, judging by what i read now. There should prolly be a "night of the oscars prize" held in some cool venue, for awarding the quality of posts that makes EAB, and if one doesn't make the cut, well, he's out.

heck, sarcasm aside, the rules even get tweaked anytime someone decides "OT is far too much", as in the few years i log to this board, its state has been discussed and changed half a dozen times.

it's a question of principle. whoever they are the guys saying OT(S) is crap, whoever they are who say OT(S) is cool, there's a line between respect and disrespect in a community of people that has nothing to do with the kind of OT there is.

after all, whatever is a matter of a given forum, it is a continuous work in progress, a malleable thing that gets shaped by the contributors.
by arbitrarily saying: "this is crap let'a change it", doing it the way it has been done in the last days, it is simply a show of disrespect that makes me ask why the heck one should even give his own contribute there in the first place.

yeah, OT(S) could have been even deleted from the board with much more less hurt, if simply the global mods, by the way of RCK simply closing the feature!
they could have said: "we're sorry, but we have decided that OT unmanageable, we prefer for the sake of the board, that its our sole purpose here, to close it down. these are examples of crap we have removed in the last year."

of course even that would have been debated, in the board and between the mods. i for one was all in favour of OTS.

but at the end of the day, OT closing would still not discriminate between leet (?) kind of fun and fun of B class.
it would also have been done in the capacity of the mods work, not just because a couple of them are tired of a discussion and think it's cool to piss on the OT guys to demonstrate piss is wet, when nobody disagreed on that fact on the first place.

why are you so even smug after all of this has rolled? what reason there is to pat yourselves in the back when what you have made is make go good people from the board (and to answer you good people are members that devoted some thousands of posts in the core of EAB therefore making this board as much as you) just for the sake of a private, non unanimous sense of what's right and what's wrong for the whole community???


Even, a public discussion with the kind of practical suggestions by Bloodwych and other would had bear the fruit of having a OT(S or not) that would make more comfortable a larger number of members.


this instead is kinda ridiculous. if this is the kind of the discussion level, with a right and a wrong that doesn't make happy anybody, i will not spend a word more about the so called community of EAB.


i sign also myself what Muzkat wrote.

[TCD]

It's somehow irritating to see that you don't get the point and think we've spammed OTS to close it down or humiliate the ones posting there. The point was to show what is considered 'okay' in OTS and if that is really what people want it to be. The 'chain of reaction' this set off is beyond me tbh. Never thought people would consider OTS an integral part of their lives that noone should 'misuse' (whatever that means in OTS).

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Never thought people would consider OTS an integral part of their lives that noone should 'misuse' (whatever that means in OTS).

of my life? no.
the respect for one' contribution in a board that should see its member on the same level? that's something i require in my real life.

[DH]

@marco
It's not about disrespect Marco, it's about implicating a sensible solution to something that has obviously got out of control and has caused grief to mods and members alike.

I want OT/OTS but I'm willing to allow for change to keep the piece of the many which out ways the upset of the few. I didn't want members to leave because of this, but it has happened, and for that I'm deeply saddened. All I can say is OTS needs to be a better place for all and not for the few.

[TCD]

@marco
Not on the same level? Woah! I don't know what's going on inside your head right now, but maybe you should take a break and rethink what happened. We didn't told people to change, stop, that they are idiots. We *really* only posted potato pics in every OTS thread to show something. What you make of it kinda scares me.

[gimbal]

I don't get what the fuss is about OTS anyway. There is still regular OT where things are kept as clean as possible, with some random violations (Shame on you! Shame on me!). Why do people so desperately want to post "intelligence" in OTS? Keep it in OT!

[Hungry Horace]

i consider myself a regular of EAB. i never (rarely) look at OT, and if it wasnt for this thread I wouldnt have even known there was a "problem" there. We kind of already have an "opt in" service, in that you just dont click "off-topic"!


I wonder how anyone else on the outside would see this? this thread is probably more off-putting to new members than OT itself!

[seuden]

Agreed.

[DH]

^

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

I wonder how anyone else on the outside would see this? this thread is probably more off-putting to new members than OT itself!

Well said! FFS, for how much longer is this going to drag on?

[Bloodwych]

So many posts, so many good opinions and points...my Brain has now self-imploded trying to digest it all.

I feel like this thread started out somewhere, went somewhere else and ended back at the start.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Bloodwych

I feel like this thread started out somewhere, went somewhere else and ended back at the start.

Not really, what we have here is a rare occasion where people are starting to agree with each other. There was no agreement at the start of this discussion.

[Galahad/FLT]

I'll chuck in my two pence worth... for what its worth!

I don't bother with the OT section anymore, haven't done so for a long time. Occasional movie thread is dwarfed by the rest of the crap in there.

I've a broad sense of humour, but most of the stuff in OT just doesn't get me chuckling.

Now, a board such as this one is only as effective as its membership. RCK can spend hundreds of Euros on the system, but if the people are not here to use it and use it well, then its all a wasted effort.

The only way EAB will continue is by attracting new members, because as people naturally drift away, we need more to plug the gaps and expand the community, otherwise the board starts going downhill, less worthwhile topics, and then people start to drift away.

Put it this way, imagine you've never been to EAB before, and you decide to have a look around and you get to the OT section, would it compel you to stay or make you want to leave?

Had that OT section been there in the state it is now when I first joined I would not have stayed.

I make it a point not to visit OT.

[Hungry Horace]

Is OTS viewable to guests? if it is considered "off-putting", i'm sure ts easy enough to disable open viewing.

If it were me, i'd do that, have regular (movies etc) OT moderated, and let OTS be fully "opt in" like The Zone as Bloodwych suggested.

I cant help but think that would (quickly) satisfy everyone? I'm not going to discuss my own opinion of OTS content, as I dont really see how it's that relevant.

I have to say though, when I was a newcomer here, I found one of the most off-putting things to be the size of the board and number of forums/sub-forums, rather than anything else.

[gimbal]

I find the arguments about new members moot. Only people with an affinity to the Amiga drift in (and out) here as that is the main topic of the website, even though it is more actively used for discussing general retro gaming and development in stead of Amiga specific things. If you want more members, make the main topic more broad IMO.

Even then, valuable new members still arrive; more than I would expect actually. I don't see them running for the hills because of OTS, in fact some of them actually stick around there and fark around like the rest of us.

[eLowar]

Originally Posted by Hungry Horace

If it were me, i'd do that, have regular (movies etc) OT moderated, and let OTS be fully "opt in" like The Zone as Bloodwych suggested.

I cant help but think that would (quickly) satisfy everyone? I'm not going to discuss my own opinion of OTS content, as I dont really see how it's that relevant.

Speaking strictly as a user (and yes that's what I've been doing here all along; for crying out loud, I never wanted my name to be green just because I needed the ability to clean up one sub-forum, so I really wish people would stop going on about that), that's a perfectly acceptable solution of course. I can't speak for the moderators (the global ones, the real ones), of course, but I think it would be rather unpleasant for them, though. This would also mean we'd need real rules for the rest of OT.

As for the "horribly vicious attack on OTS" (oh noes, the spammers were outspammed for one day, much crying), it hasn't created this issue, it has merely drawn attention to it, which is exactly what it was designed to do. This problem has existed for a long time and nobody has dared implement any real solution.

If I may offer another little history lesson: OTS exists specifically because back then OT was being excessively abused. Its purpose was to hide the spam, not to breed more spam. Unfortunately "regular OT" went down with OTS, partly because posts spill over, and partly just because the "new posts" listing for OT includes OTS, which makes it increasingly hard to find anything non-OTS.

Contrary to popular belief, the agenda here is not to separate OT further, it is to clean up OT and reintegrate it into the rest of EAB. Which means it has to have some semblance of work- and family-safety and actual content (and no, that does not mean "what I like", that means anything that is more than just meaningless spam) must not be drowned out by a million identical spam threads.