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Old 22 February 2020, 23:13   #81
Retro-Nerd
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If we call it bad and they call it good, who the heck are we to claim our opinion is somehow better than theirs? Surely that doesn't make sense? Which is all I'm really trying to say.

But this is no "I like coffee, no i like tea better" discussion. The flaws are there in Xenon II, technically and in level/enemy/weapons design. There are surely Shinobi Amiga fans too, and it's more than objectively bad.
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Old 22 February 2020, 23:16   #82
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But this is no "I like coffee, no i like tea better" discussion. The flaws are there in Xenon II, technically and in level/enemy/weapons design. There are surely Shinobi Amiga fans too, and it's more than objectively bad.
But it really isn't. Or rather, it really is a "I like coffee, no I like tea better" discussion. There's just more fluff about tech stuff involved. But ultimately, that tech stuff is merely used to try to justify one's opinion of a game. See, what you call flaws, other people do not call flaws.

This is the whole point - you see things you don't like and call them flaws. Other people don't care about these things or perhaps even like them as is. Which is why it's not objective, but subjective.

Anyway, this discussion is getting way off-topic so I'm going to end it. Otherwise we'll have ten pages of it. You know my point by now and I don't think we'll end up fully agreeing here
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Old 22 February 2020, 23:21   #83
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From your standpoint there aren't bad thing/good things. Just things. All arguments are invalid, no matter on what subject.
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Old 22 February 2020, 23:31   #84
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From your standpoint there aren't bad thing/good things. Just things. All arguments are invalid, no matter on what subject.
Not really, I only feel this is for subjective things. Such as whether or not a game/movie/book/painting/statue/piece of music/type of food/choice of colour/etc is "objectively good" or "objectively bad"

Understand, I'm not saying I think you can't like/dislike the game. Nor am I saying you can't have a discussion about it. And definitely not that you can't point to objective technical elements in a game you don't like (low frame rate, scrolling that doesn't update every frame, whether or not the collision detection is accurate or not, etc). Far from it, I rather enjoy reading these and it can be quite illuminating (for instance, the first time someone pointed out the low frame rate in Xenon II to me, I understood why I didn't like it better than before). I'm only saying that elevating your opinion on these things to claiming a game is factually good or bad is something I disagree with (and have always found rather amusing to see - as to me good/bad are always subjective, by definition).

But I've made that clear now I think

Last edited by roondar; 22 February 2020 at 23:54. Reason: Added some stuff, as I wasn't happy with it.
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