English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.Hardware

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 22 June 2016, 00:43   #21
Mr.Flibble
Registered User

Mr.Flibble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey View Post
I believe kipper2k and Majsta are both building hardware. You were typing the same thing I was about more mass production though .
Yeah, I was heading in that direction too - Dave Jones of EEVBlog fame did a video from one of these pcb fab locations explaining how much cheaper and easier it can be to get one of these companies to do all the board soldering with automated pick/place machines and PCB ovens, even at relatively small volumes.

Not to knock Kipper/Majsta at all, but soldering up hundreds of PCB's for the current Vampire can't be much fun, let alone when you scale that to the upcoming variants with much higher levels of ownership...
Mr.Flibble is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 22 June 2016, 03:11   #22
matthey
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble View Post
Yeah, I was heading in that direction too - Dave Jones of EEVBlog fame did a video from one of these pcb fab locations explaining how much cheaper and easier it can be to get one of these companies to do all the board soldering with automated pick/place machines and PCB ovens, even at relatively small volumes.
There is a fair amount of work getting a 3rd party fab location setup and everything working well as can be seen by MikeJ's experience having the FPGA Arcade produced. As he says, it will let him focus on other things now. On the other Vampire/Apollo side, those guys don't have time to answer e-mails for weeks about potential sales. Hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Flibble View Post
Not to knock Kipper/Majsta at all, but soldering up hundreds of PCB's for the current Vampire can't be much fun, let alone when you scale that to the upcoming variants with much higher levels of ownership...
Yea, kipper2k and Majsta are great guys. I don't doubt their integrity or motives at all. They have refined their production technique with stencils which can produce good results but they can be overwhelmed by demand. The Vamp 600 is selling well enough and I expect the Vamp 500/1000/2000 to sell several times that number (low tens of thousands over a few years?). The Vamp 1200 could sell as well as the Vamp 500/1000/2000. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 100,000 68k FPGA Amiga users before there is 10,000 PPC AmigaOS users. The elites will still probably be holding the AmigaOS hostage for the 10% but at least they will deserve to go bankrupt for ignoring the obvious.
matthey is offline  
Old 22 June 2016, 03:27   #23
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 43
Posts: 919
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
Keep in mind that the A600 version of the Vampire board is a hand-sanded chip socket that cannot be easily tested in a factory while the A500 model uses a 64 pin DIP socket which is much more easily mass produced.
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 22 June 2016, 04:22   #24
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
Keep in mind that the A600 version of the Vampire board is a hand-sanded chip socket that cannot be easily tested in a factory while the A500 model uses a 64 pin DIP socket which is much more easily mass produced.
Which could be considered a bad design decision.
Ease of testing is one of the things that must be factored in when you intend to be tackling "mass" production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey View Post
There is a fair amount of work getting a 3rd party fab location setup and everything working well as can be seen by MikeJ's experience having the FPGA Arcade produced. As he says, it will let him focus on other things now. On the other Vampire/Apollo side, those guys don't have time to answer e-mails for weeks about potential sales. Hmm.
Yup.
I have seen a few small scale projects which externalize the production of their boards and component soldering and you can bet that Jens has been doing that for years. It seems a bit crazy that with potential volumes as high as those of Jens the Vampire guys are still assembling everything themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey View Post
Yea, kipper2k and Majsta are great guys. I don't doubt their integrity or motives at all. They have refined their production technique with stencils which can produce good results but they can be overwhelmed by demand. The Vamp 600 is selling well enough and I expect the Vamp 500/1000/2000 to sell several times that number (low tens of thousands over a few years?). The Vamp 1200 could sell as well as the Vamp 500/1000/2000.
They are great guys but let's just hope that Kipper won't die of exhaustion or from the soldering toxic fumes before the project starts being profitable.

As for email, which is the original topic of this thread, I think it would be very professional of Kipper to at least set an automatic responder indicating that he cannot read his email. They are probably losing customers with the current rate of reply.
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 22 June 2016, 23:54   #25
jarp
Registered User

 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Helsinki / Finland
Posts: 166
Well take a look at the latest status update... http://www.kipper2k.com/updates.html

Not fun but perhaps it grants some time without solder fumes for the guys...
jarp is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 01:08   #26
Ratteler
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bronx
Posts: 134
Awww FUCK!!!!
Ratteler is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 02:07   #27
matthey
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by kipper2k
Hi All, i have completed all but a couple of paid for orders. We have now a little hiccup. Intel has purchased Altera and the price of FPGA has more than doubled.


$152 is not a price we can obviously live with so i am trying to source them elsewhere (not EbAY!!), it appears Intel is trying to get some money back from the takeover costs or have other devious things in mind so at the moment we have a shortage of parts available (strictly my own conspiracy theory
In other news, the SEC has thoroughly examined the merger of Intel and Altera and concluded that there will be virtually no impact on employment, competition or prices in the FPGA market. As for the 12,000 Intel layoffs, those were not related because we say so. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain I tell you. This is the most transparent <redacted> ever. Please send all requests for comments to the lowliest SEC department workers where they will file them appropriately.
matthey is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 02:11   #28
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,012
Oh, my. This is bad news and not just for the Vampire.
It really looks like a case of buying your potential competitors as I do not think Altera has any competencies that Intel lacks.
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 02:45   #29
matthey
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
It really looks like a case of buying your potential competitors as I do not think Altera has any competencies that Intel lacks.
I don't think it is this simple. On paper, Intel and Altera were not considered competitors at all. I believe Intel has employees with extensive knowledge about how FPGAs are manufactured (Intel provided the fab facilities for manufacture which required working closely with the Altera employees). Altera probably had legal rights to some of the processes and designs which would make it difficult for Intel to become an FPGA producer without buying in. It is easier and safer just to buy Altera to gain all the legal rights and know how of Altera. Intel is able to lock down the technology for its own purposes (probably at least CPU+FPGA) and exclude others. FPGA sales are growing making it a low risk acquisition although Intel seriously payed up for Altera. Intel now has a more complete product portfolio to offer and the Intel name may bring a premium.
matthey is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 03:53   #30
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey View Post
I don't think it is this simple. On paper, Intel and Altera were not considered competitors at all. I believe Intel has employees with extensive knowledge about how FPGAs are manufactured (Intel provided the fab facilities for manufacture which required working closely with the Altera employees). Altera probably had legal rights to some of the processes and designs which would make it difficult for Intel to become an FPGA producer without buying in. It is easier and safer just to buy Altera to gain all the legal rights and know how of Altera. Intel is able to lock down the technology for its own purposes (probably at least CPU+FPGA) and exclude others. FPGA sales are growing making it a low risk acquisition although Intel seriously payed up for Altera. Intel now has a more complete product portfolio to offer and the Intel name may bring a premium.
Yes, my presentation of the situation was a bit rough and I fully agree with your analysis (first time! Yeah! ).
Intel are smart and they smelled the fact that flexibility was going to become a crucial feature for mobile/embedded/hobby processors (and possibly desktops eventually) so in their view, they very likely did this to suppress this eventual competition and gain a foothold in this "new" market. The fact that they raised prices immediately after says a lot about the control they think this gives them over the supply.
I hope the other FPGA designers are up to the task of facing Intel but frankly this feels like wishful thinking.
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 04:09   #31
SKOLMAN_MWS
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Poland
Posts: 100
https://www.utsource.net/ic-datashee...N-1523794.html

http://www.kynix.com/Detail/413746/EP3C40F484C8N.html
SKOLMAN_MWS is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 12:49   #32
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 385
Forget about this Intel conspiracy thing, it's utter nonsense. The C3 was officially declared EOL when the v2 was designed. The C3 chips that are around are spare parts and now increase in price as they get fewer and fewer. New products will use newer FPGAs. The C5 can be used for the vampires with a few minor modifications to the PCB and that's it.
grond is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 16:55   #33
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by grond View Post
Forget about this Intel conspiracy thing, it's utter nonsense. The C3 was officially declared EOL when the v2 was designed. The C3 chips that are around are spare parts and now increase in price as they get fewer and fewer. New products will use newer FPGAs. The C5 can be used for the vampires with a few minor modifications to the PCB and that's it.
Thanks for bringing additional facts to the table!

But you could just have said "I believe your analysis of the price increase is incorrect and here are some data which highlights why".
There is no conspiracy nor nonsense here, just speculation based on business sense (and lack of data apparently).
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 18:57   #34
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
There is no conspiracy nor nonsense here, just speculation based on business sense (and lack of data apparently).
I was referring to the conspiracy nonsense on kipper's web site. Sorry if you thought I was referring to you. I bet kipper can stand a little fire...
grond is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 18:59   #35
dirkies
Zone Friend

dirkies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Age: 45
Posts: 1,183
It does remind me of the fpga price hike mentioned on the u1541 website explaining he went for a different chip this time justifying the forthcoming plus version.
dirkies is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 19:37   #36
kipper2k
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Thunder Bay, Canada
Posts: 3,617
Hi, still about, i am sytruggling to keep head above water, i am currently working on requests dating back to Feb so i am not able to keep up, hence lack of info and email responses
kipper2k is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 19:40   #37
dirkies
Zone Friend

dirkies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Age: 45
Posts: 1,183
Patience is a virtue folks.
Kudos to Kipper2k for all his hard work for the community.
dirkies is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 21:16   #38
matthey
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
Intel are smart and they smelled the fact that flexibility was going to become a crucial feature for mobile/embedded/hobby processors (and possibly desktops eventually) so in their view, they very likely did this to suppress this eventual competition and gain a foothold in this "new" market.
When Dr. Volker Barthelmann (vbcc compiler author) wrote his thesis back in 2004, the market size of embedded systems was about 100 times the desktop market. The embedded market annual revenue is about 4 trillion U.S. dollars now and doubling about every 4 years. This is at a time of anemic economic recovery after the great recession of 2007/2008. PC sales have been stagnate resulting in the Intel layoffs and diversification away from the PC (especially desktop) and into one of the biggest drivers of the embedded boom which is FPGA technology and affordable flexible processors. Who wouldn't want a piece of this growing market, well, besides the current Amiga owners who would rather bet the farm on an extremely narrow market of niche desktop PCs? C= failed to diversify enough and missed several opportunities to expand into the embedded market. Well, some companies have business savvy and the others go bankrupt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grond View Post
Forget about this Intel conspiracy thing, it's utter nonsense. The C3 was officially declared EOL when the v2 was designed. The C3 chips that are around are spare parts and now increase in price as they get fewer and fewer. New products will use newer FPGAs. The C5 can be used for the vampires with a few minor modifications to the PCB and that's it.
It is not good to make assumptions the other way either. Mergers and acquisitions can disrupt normal supply chains or worse. Apple's purchase of P.A. Semi resulted in major product availability changes which affected the Amiga. Altera may have been holding on to low yield FPGA chips and selling them later rather than saturating the market immediately after production but Intel may have found another use or buyer for them. While the merger of Intel and Altera is called a merger, probably to reduce regulatory review, there is little doubt that this is a predatory takeover and Intel now dominates and controls Altera which means major changes are possible already. You are correct that the C3 is discontinued and supply and demand will affect the price with an expectation of the price to increase over time. The Apollo Core Team has looked at the C5 for awhile now but Majsta liked to buy the cheaper big C3 for a small savings. It is possible that the Vampire demand for a limited supply of C3s has driven up the price and has nothing to do with Intel.

Last edited by matthey; 23 June 2016 at 21:32.
matthey is offline  
Old 23 June 2016, 22:06   #39
Ratteler
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bronx
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by kipper2k View Post
Hi, still about, i am sytruggling to keep head above water, i am currently working on requests dating back to Feb so i am not able to keep up, hence lack of info and email responses
It's Ok. My rush was to get ready for my Vampire 500, which I assume is on hold now until the CIII price situation can be sorted.

Until then, my A500 is fairly useless anyway.
Ratteler is offline  
Old 24 June 2016, 14:32   #40
Amicol
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Hartlepool / England
Posts: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratteler View Post
I've sent E-mails and PM about buying his External Gotek drive.
Been about 2 week and no response at all.

Is he OK, or just busy?
I sent several emails over the Christmas and New Year period with no reply.
I'm guessing he's busy with the Vampire...

Whoops, just seen Kipper's response. He is busy and working through requests
Amicol is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where have I heard that before? OddbOd Nostalgia & memories 2 16 February 2016 19:05
Printing . probably heard this before...but what the hell ,here goes ! Fatbloke-Dim request.Other 4 08 January 2013 20:28
Anyone heard from mr.niceguy lately :( cavanor MarketPlace 11 16 June 2010 12:14
anyone ever heard about this game? Tbird Looking for a game name ? 5 19 January 2003 22:01
Have you ever heard of a game... enigma request.Old Rare Games 5 04 February 2002 08:13

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.36565 seconds with 12 queries