What do you guys really want?

JonSick · 13 October 2006, 16:46

So, An "Amiga" gets released tomorrow, all brand spanking new and ideally aimed at the home market and something venerable to rival the high spec PCs out there, what would it be?

Backwards compatble?

What would make it be a tempting alternative to all these people running games like Half Life 2 in all its SLI Conroe glory?

Am I barking up the wrong tree? Ideally, what product would you be willing to part with a few quid for?

Basically, if "Amiga" got released tomorrow, what would it be?

Jon

pbareges · 13 October 2006, 17:56

a basic 1200 kick3.1 2mb chip 8mb fast 4gb cf included as hd, presinstalled os and the best of all legal abandonware stuff preloaded on hd, ie best games and apps (with a preregistered whdload license of course!) remoded to be lighter & smaller...for less than 70$ US retail(produced in series this may be possible if amiga inc the os license holder is not asking too much)....this could be a real killer and make the amiga popular again for new generations tired of boring games! the only improvement may be on the AGA chip (but with full backward compatibility!!)...fix flickering, include hardware implementation of writechunkypixels os function, and make video output switchable between 15khz and 31kkhz for 15khz native modes!

heroicnonsense · 13 October 2006, 19:11

I never understood why Amiga Tech isn't launching it's own "console" with 30 games-or-so preloaded.

I mean, look at the popularity of these "Direct-to-TV joystick" games that are flooding the market today. Everyone from Sega to Viacom to the company that is now known as Commodore ("Yeahronimo") is doing it. Preloading a similar device with, say, a couple of Team 17, Gremlin, Bitmap Brothers and Psygnosis-games ought to be enough to get things started.

Heck, one could include a memory-card adaptor and release expansion-packs for the thing.

I'd pay € 50 for one for sure.

musashi5150 · 13 October 2006, 20:03

I'm happy with Amigas as they are, I don't need any new or improved ones - I'm happy to use them as they were intended

But something like MiniMig (or the 'Clone' project Jens is working on) would be great as a novelty to play with

pbareges · 13 October 2006, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by musashi5150

I'm happy with Amigas as they are, I don't need any new or improved ones - I'm happy to use them as they were intended

But something like MiniMig (or the 'Clone' project Jens is working on) would be great as a novelty to play with

yes but hardware is getting old, so new freshly made amiga 1200 would be greatly appreciated to make them last a few more decades!!

keropi · 13 October 2006, 22:26

I want a new motherboard that has FULL AGA/68K capabillitities, along with goodies like usb2,sata, etc... a single ppc (coldfire perhaps) + 060 combo motherboard... that would kick serious ass.
also the aga should be able to output via overlay or something from the vga card this mobo would have.
I can dream, can't I ?

musashi5150 · 13 October 2006, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbareges

yes but hardware is getting old, so new freshly made amiga 1200 would be greatly appreciated to make them last a few more decades!!

I agree completely - a new mobo run wouldn't go astray

And don't foget the A500 too of course

blade002 · 14 October 2006, 00:37

Operating System wise, we need to let the past go and forget about backwards compatibility with games. We still have our old Amiga's so we can use those to play games with.

But a completely revamped version of Workbench would be the best way to go. Due to the mentality of staying in the past, not alot of Amiga users wanted to upgrade our systems ( many Amiga users wouldnt in the 90's ) with accelerators, extra memory etc.. And of course the demise of Commodore screwed us completely, so we had no say in that one.

I too love the Amiga the way it was orginally, and i think that nothing could come close to that feel of those Amiga's ever again. But to stay ahead of the game in today's world, we need a killer Amiga with killer hardware.. not 90's hardware with a bunch of retro idea's..

Ive spoken to many people younger than me and they much prefer 3D gaming over 2D gaming, and although i love 2D more, the fact of the matter is, we need to get out of the past if the Amiga is to have any hope or any future again.

I know that this was a hypothetical question, but im under the impession that no one here would buy a new Amiga unless it was almost identical to the old ones ??.

lopos2000 · 14 October 2006, 01:54

A peaceful live would do.

Ultron · 14 October 2006, 03:24

I don't want an Amiga. This is 2006.

I wanted an Amiga in the early 90's. I got it. That was the last century.

Abandonware KS and WB's, a better Emulator, and a free acess to the Amiga's library of software for preservation and nostalgia's sake.

Which, btw, is what all other platformers have, and have been having for years now.

musashi5150 · 14 October 2006, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade002

I know that this was a hypothetical question, but im under the impession that no one here would buy a new Amiga unless it was almost identical to the old ones ??.

I wouldn't buy a new Amiga full stop - whatever it was like. I'm not interested. Amiga is an old platform that I love and I'll always stay with it. My Amigas are purely for my own fun and I use them every day. Anything serious I need to do I use a PC for - whatever anyone here says a modern PC does things better.

I don't really believe that anyone has the power to stand against M$ these days anyway, even Apple only has a small market.

So no, I'm not interested in AmigaONE/MorphOS/RTG/PCI/OS4 etc. I like coding in assembler, watching demos and cracking so I'm happy as I am with my 680x0s and Workbench @ 640x256

JonSick · 14 October 2006, 11:17

Do you really think anyone could make a serious amount of money by doing another run of a1200 or a500 machines?

They would have to be a short run to start off with as only a few people would buy them; the average oik in pc world I think would have a really tough time trying to sell someone on a 14.3 MHz machine as opposed to a 4 GHz machine.Plus a lot of the ICs would have to be custom fabricated, even the CPU as motorola has long since quit making 68k CPUs.

How about an operating system called Amiga that would load onto standard PCs that would serve as a complete alternative for Windows, yet still be able to run software intended for windows?

Possible, or just stupid?

musashi5150 · 14 October 2006, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonSick

Do you really think anyone could make a serious amount of money by doing another run of a1200 or a500 machines?

Nope, not a chance

And probably not too many of us would buy them either (I already have 18 machines) - they would cost more than the ones on eBay and in junk shops

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonSick

How about an operating system called Amiga that would load onto standard PCs that would serve as a complete alternative for Windows, yet still be able to run software intended for windows?

Maybe some people might like that... but I think most people would probably plump for normal Windoze and use WinUAE as well.

I'm not being deliberately negative about everything - I just genuinely believe the Amigas reign is well and truly in the past. I don't have a problem with that - I'm a throwback anyway

Legerdemain · 14 October 2006, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultron

Abandonware KS and WB's, a better Emulator, and a free acess to the Amiga's library of software for preservation and nostalgia's sake.

Which, btw, is what all other platformers have, and have been having for years now.

Let's get some facts straight:

1. Abandonware is just a word created by people that wants to pretend to be legal when they are spreading pirated software around.

2. As a company you can't abandonware software, not to a higher extent than not to bother about what people do with your companys software (in other words: ONLY the software that your company has produced and nothing else). It would still be illegal to spread the software around, however.

3. You can't just release the software catalouge for a certain platform for free (unless the catalouge is really small and very few companies have been involved in developing the software)... this is especially true when it comes the Amiga platform... since there are hundreds of thousands of different copyright holders that has to be contacted in the process that has to give their permission to release the specific software, that they have developed, for free.

4. All the other platforms have NOT released their software catalouge for free... really, they have NOT. It looks quite ridicilous when you make that very statement, sorry to say. Do you think the probably 1000+ companies that have developed software for the MSX have said 'oh, heck, the software is now free, do what you want with it'? The software companies behind the PC-Engine? No? The software companies behind the X68000? No? The software companies behind the Atari? No? Heck, even the people behind Boulderdaesh for the Commodore 64 have to some extent contacted people that are offering the game for download to remove the game from their sites...

To have software on ones site, claiming it to be adandonware is one thing but wether or not it is illegal is a completely different thing. To put it simply: Is software claimed, by some people, to be abandonware legal to spread around? No... but in certain cases the companies behind the software doesn't bother about it being around... they just pretend to not be aware of that it is happening... or they simply don't know that it is happening.

(Edited by me since I wrote some rather uneccessary and stupid comments the first time around).

Zetr0 · 14 October 2006, 11:38

Heys, Jon what you are describing there is Amithalon, wich IMHO would of been the answer to ALL the problems of those amigans wishing to upgrade even though it doesn`t allow to run windows software.

However Its pretty damn cool and only emulates stuff that hits the cusom chips the rest is ported through..

The best way to think of amithalon is like a REALLY fast Amiga like my barton 3200 would be a 3.2Ghz Amiga... quite nice indeed since I love imagine for rendering

Unfortunately Amithalon is no longer sold (other than on ebay from time to time) A fellow Amigan on these Far boards (Charlie) helped me out with getting an original so PM me I might be able to do the same (it installs on native x86 hardware).

Another OS is AROS (Its very close to Ultrons Heart, and mine too in fact) although it looks amiga i still get the feeling of linux, mind you i get that now and again with a powered amiga so i guess i cant say that much..

AROS is free ware and you can download as you wish, just give it a google.

Talking about chips and cpus and stuff:
Motorola droped the 68k line of cpus in favour for the *much cheaper* cold fire cpus, ironically these bad boys have almost an identical instruction set with few exceptions to the said 68k cpus (there based on a reduced 68000 cpu) however they run at 100 / 300+ mhz so there is quite potential there.

if you search for minimig there the project went for a cold fire 3 and a little more searching with find Oli's A3000/4000 accelerator offering a cold fire 4 at 200mhz i think as well as the possibility of usb as well. it all looks good

Retro1234 · 14 October 2006, 18:26

A sturdy console clone for replacement or upgrage faster processor Coldfusion/PPc 128mb+ Good compatibility, AGA+, Tv Output, Usb Support, Most A1200 inputs-outputs, Harddrive = £200

MiniMig and Clone-A look promising.
Maybe a Fast hardware uae console.

r.cade · 14 October 2006, 21:17

A 4G CF card is already more than $100 just by itself, so how on earth would you hit $70 retail?

Also, the whole idea is ridiculous, because these games don't mean a thing to anyone born after 1975-1980 except a very few. I love this old stuff, too, but the technology was surpassed by the SNES in 1991.

[flame suit on and ducking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbareges

a basic 1200 kick3.1 2mb chip 8mb fast 4gb cf included as hd, presinstalled os and the best of all legal abandonware stuff preloaded on hd, ie best games and apps (with a preregistered whdload license of course!) remoded to be lighter & smaller...for less than 70$ US retail(produced in series this may be possible if amiga inc the os license holder is not asking too much)....this could be a real killer and make the amiga popular again for new generations tired of boring games! the only improvement may be on the AGA chip (but with full backward compatibility!!)...fix flickering, include hardware implementation of writechunkypixels os function, and make video output switchable between 15khz and 31kkhz for 15khz native modes!

PaulyQ · 15 October 2006, 03:23

This is an age old question, just re-worded!!

It's a case of "what do you want on your Dreamcast but it never happened?" - but for the Amiga.

The Amiga A1200 as a platform is 90's technology(albeit good technology for the time), and it needed to move on, but for reasons unknown to the public it just got completely f**ked(actually lets be honest we do know a lot of the reasons).

But back to the original question... if an Amiga was released tomorow........ not gonna happen, it will be based on x86 chip or PPC or similar.... it will surely be an OS that runs on current systems, thats the only way to maximise the profits and the capital that have been invested in the OS4/5(if rumours and other threadsare to believed)..... that said.....I love vapourware, doesn't screw with your currently installed system

As for the console idea... well no, for me personally it just wouldn't work, they have a megadrive inside of a joystick these days that plays some of the classic, they have a c64 thingy that incorporates lights guns etc(I have one) with 64 games.... but why an Amiga on a chip/console, why do we get so exited? IT'S OLD TECHNOLOGY THAT DOES NOTHING TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY?

We have either an Amiga or a PC/Mac.... we emulate, we preserve, we play games...... why spoil it by adding another nail in the Amiga coffin by adding a 3rd party non selling console that will only add to the collector regieme.

A killer Amiga.... it will be a PC with an Amiga OS(if the OS actually ships). I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, but a realist. I've read the stories on these pages regarding hardware(i.e. Motherboards etc) that "could" be used for the next Amiga. Lets be honest, and think of this from a money making/marketing point of view .... would you release a £700 computer or would you licence an Operating system that runs on MAC and PC for around £50-100? Whats going to sell more?

RANT OVER.

EmuChicken · 15 October 2006, 08:57

An Amiga that works in full colour on japanese tvs

... thats it

Mungo · 15 October 2006, 11:03

Stick a keyboard and a harddrive on the new PS3 and release a C compiler and a decent(ish) OS for it.

That ought to just about cover it for me.

13 October 2006, 16:46	#1
JonSick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 255	What do you guys really want? So, An "Amiga" gets released tomorrow, all brand spanking new and ideally aimed at the home market and something venerable to rival the high spec PCs out there, what would it be? Backwards compatble? What would make it be a tempting alternative to all these people running games like Half Life 2 in all its SLI Conroe glory? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Ideally, what product would you be willing to part with a few quid for? Basically, if "Amiga" got released tomorrow, what would it be? Jon

13 October 2006, 17:56	#2
pbareges Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: montreal / canada Age: 47 Posts: 722	a basic 1200 kick3.1 2mb chip 8mb fast 4gb cf included as hd, presinstalled os and the best of all legal abandonware stuff preloaded on hd, ie best games and apps (with a preregistered whdload license of course!) remoded to be lighter & smaller...for less than 70$ US retail(produced in series this may be possible if amiga inc the os license holder is not asking too much)....this could be a real killer and make the amiga popular again for new generations tired of boring games! the only improvement may be on the AGA chip (but with full backward compatibility!!)...fix flickering, include hardware implementation of writechunkypixels os function, and make video output switchable between 15khz and 31kkhz for 15khz native modes! Last edited by pbareges; 13 October 2006 at 20:07.

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13 October 2006, 19:11	#3
heroicnonsense Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Doorwerth, Netherlands Posts: 21	I never understood why Amiga Tech isn't launching it's own "console" with 30 games-or-so preloaded. I mean, look at the popularity of these "Direct-to-TV joystick" games that are flooding the market today. Everyone from Sega to Viacom to the company that is now known as Commodore ("Yeahronimo") is doing it. Preloading a similar device with, say, a couple of Team 17, Gremlin, Bitmap Brothers and Psygnosis-games ought to be enough to get things started. Heck, one could include a memory-card adaptor and release expansion-packs for the thing. I'd pay € 50 for one for sure.

13 October 2006, 20:03	#4
musashi5150 move.w #$4489,$dff07e Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Norfolk, UK Age: 42 Posts: 2,351	I'm happy with Amigas as they are, I don't need any new or improved ones - I'm happy to use them as they were intended But something like MiniMig (or the 'Clone' project Jens is working on) would be great as a novelty to play with

13 October 2006, 22:26	#6
keropi . Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ioannina/Greece Posts: 5,040	I want a new motherboard that has FULL AGA/68K capabillitities, along with goodies like usb2,sata, etc... a single ppc (coldfire perhaps) + 060 combo motherboard... that would kick serious ass. also the aga should be able to output via overlay or something from the vga card this mobo would have. I can dream, can't I ?

14 October 2006, 00:37	#8
blade002 Zone Friend Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Age: 50 Posts: 2,616	Operating System wise, we need to let the past go and forget about backwards compatibility with games. We still have our old Amiga's so we can use those to play games with. But a completely revamped version of Workbench would be the best way to go. Due to the mentality of staying in the past, not alot of Amiga users wanted to upgrade our systems ( many Amiga users wouldnt in the 90's ) with accelerators, extra memory etc.. And of course the demise of Commodore screwed us completely, so we had no say in that one. I too love the Amiga the way it was orginally, and i think that nothing could come close to that feel of those Amiga's ever again. But to stay ahead of the game in today's world, we need a killer Amiga with killer hardware.. not 90's hardware with a bunch of retro idea's.. Ive spoken to many people younger than me and they much prefer 3D gaming over 2D gaming, and although i love 2D more, the fact of the matter is, we need to get out of the past if the Amiga is to have any hope or any future again. I know that this was a hypothetical question, but im under the impession that no one here would buy a new Amiga unless it was almost identical to the old ones ??.

14 October 2006, 01:54	#9
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	A peaceful live would do.

14 October 2006, 03:24	#10
Ultron Something Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Amigaland, Nostalgia Age: 48 Posts: 757	I don't want an Amiga. This is 2006. I wanted an Amiga in the early 90's. I got it. That was the last century. Abandonware KS and WB's, a better Emulator, and a free acess to the Amiga's library of software for preservation and nostalgia's sake. Which, btw, is what all other platformers have, and have been having for years now.

14 October 2006, 11:17	#12
JonSick Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 255	Do you really think anyone could make a serious amount of money by doing another run of a1200 or a500 machines? They would have to be a short run to start off with as only a few people would buy them; the average oik in pc world I think would have a really tough time trying to sell someone on a 14.3 MHz machine as opposed to a 4 GHz machine.Plus a lot of the ICs would have to be custom fabricated, even the CPU as motorola has long since quit making 68k CPUs. How about an operating system called Amiga that would load onto standard PCs that would serve as a complete alternative for Windows, yet still be able to run software intended for windows? Possible, or just stupid?

14 October 2006, 11:38	#15
Zetr0 Ya' like it Retr0? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: United Kingdom Age: 49 Posts: 9,768	Heys, Jon what you are describing there is Amithalon, wich IMHO would of been the answer to ALL the problems of those amigans wishing to upgrade even though it doesn`t allow to run windows software. However Its pretty damn cool and only emulates stuff that hits the cusom chips the rest is ported through.. The best way to think of amithalon is like a REALLY fast Amiga like my barton 3200 would be a 3.2Ghz Amiga... quite nice indeed since I love imagine for rendering Unfortunately Amithalon is no longer sold (other than on ebay from time to time) A fellow Amigan on these Far boards (Charlie) helped me out with getting an original so PM me I might be able to do the same (it installs on native x86 hardware). Another OS is AROS (Its very close to Ultrons Heart, and mine too in fact) although it looks amiga i still get the feeling of linux, mind you i get that now and again with a powered amiga so i guess i cant say that much.. AROS is free ware and you can download as you wish, just give it a google. Talking about chips and cpus and stuff: Motorola droped the 68k line of cpus in favour for the much cheaper cold fire cpus, ironically these bad boys have almost an identical instruction set with few exceptions to the said 68k cpus (there based on a reduced 68000 cpu) however they run at 100 / 300+ mhz so there is quite potential there. if you search for minimig there the project went for a cold fire 3 and a little more searching with find Oli's A3000/4000 accelerator offering a cold fire 4 at 200mhz i think as well as the possibility of usb as well. it all looks good

14 October 2006, 18:26	#16
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	A sturdy console clone for replacement or upgrage faster processor Coldfusion/PPc 128mb+ Good compatibility, AGA+, Tv Output, Usb Support, Most A1200 inputs-outputs, Harddrive = £200 MiniMig and Clone-A look promising. Maybe a Fast hardware uae console.

15 October 2006, 03:23	#18
PaulyQ Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hartlepool, UK Age: 53 Posts: 237	This is an age old question, just re-worded!! It's a case of "what do you want on your Dreamcast but it never happened?" - but for the Amiga. The Amiga A1200 as a platform is 90's technology(albeit good technology for the time), and it needed to move on, but for reasons unknown to the public it just got completely f**ked(actually lets be honest we do know a lot of the reasons). But back to the original question... if an Amiga was released tomorow........ not gonna happen, it will be based on x86 chip or PPC or similar.... it will surely be an OS that runs on current systems, thats the only way to maximise the profits and the capital that have been invested in the OS4/5(if rumours and other threadsare to believed)..... that said.....I love vapourware, doesn't screw with your currently installed system As for the console idea... well no, for me personally it just wouldn't work, they have a megadrive inside of a joystick these days that plays some of the classic, they have a c64 thingy that incorporates lights guns etc(I have one) with 64 games.... but why an Amiga on a chip/console, why do we get so exited? IT'S OLD TECHNOLOGY THAT DOES NOTHING TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY? We have either an Amiga or a PC/Mac.... we emulate, we preserve, we play games...... why spoil it by adding another nail in the Amiga coffin by adding a 3rd party non selling console that will only add to the collector regieme. A killer Amiga.... it will be a PC with an Amiga OS(if the OS actually ships). I don't mean to sound like a pessimist, but a realist. I've read the stories on these pages regarding hardware(i.e. Motherboards etc) that "could" be used for the next Amiga. Lets be honest, and think of this from a money making/marketing point of view .... would you release a £700 computer or would you licence an Operating system that runs on MAC and PC for around £50-100? Whats going to sell more? RANT OVER.

15 October 2006, 08:57	#19
EmuChicken Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nagoya, Japan (moved!) Age: 41 Posts: 746	An Amiga that works in full colour on japanese tvs ... thats it

15 October 2006, 11:03	#20
Mungo ATX - For Fun Not Status Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Age: 49 Posts: 76	Stick a keyboard and a harddrive on the new PS3 and release a C compiler and a decent(ish) OS for it. That ought to just about cover it for me.

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